Saturday, May 22, 2010

Women at Home, Men at Work: the Way it Should Be



Still Life of Lillies and Roses
by Mary Margetts, British 1841-1886


The Lord loves women so much that he gave special care instructions for them.  Husbands are to love them as their own body and provide for them, (Ephesians 5, Ist Timothy 5:8)  and children are to honour them (Ephesians 6).  They are called the weaker vessel in Ist Peter 3:7, and there is a reason for that.

In our homes are different kinds of cooking and serving vessels. Some of them can withstand a lot of use and pressure, and others are can not. The weaker vessels are stronger in some ways, and their function is different.

 One could argue that a china teacup appears to be weak and delicate, but can withstand a lot of heat.  That same cup might not endure so well if it were used as a frying pan, but it is strong in its own purpose. Woman, though called the weaker vessel, is strong when engaged in the purpose for which she was created: to love their husbands and children, to care for their homes.  

  God gave a special provision for women in Titus 2 and 1st Timothy 5:14, when He allowed them to guide the home.  There have been efforts to remove women from the home, and has resulted in troubled families.

 Womens political movements have spent a century trying to be equal to men, and in doing so, men have quit regarding them as  weaker vessels, creatures worth protecting and caring for. Some modern men have never seen a truly feminine woman, content with her work in the home. Growing up in institutions and schools, they saw girls and women who seemed the same as men in their purpose and activities. They have not grown up with  Biblical grandmothers and mothers. They get their image of what women are supposed to be like, from what they see around them. Most men these days have female bosses and are surrounded by women in the workforce. They see nothing wrong with sending their wives to work.  It looks normal to them. Men feel no shame in sending their children to daycare and their wives to work.

 The womens movement has changed the nature of men. They do not seem strong, protective, masculine and brave. Men have become weaker because they no longer have to be the sole provider for the family. They have no unique role in society; nothing to make them hold their head high or improve their dignity, when women also earn the living for the family. There are few places in the workplace where women have not invaded. Work needs to be a man's world, and homemaking needs to be a woman's world. Husbands and wives can be stronger in their own ways, when they do not try to be alike in their roles.

  Women must return to the home and men must take on the burden of providing for their families again.  Working to be a provider builds up a man, and contentedly tending to her home increases the soft femininity of a woman. These are the opposite tedencies which are the main attractions between men and women.  When husbands and wives both work outside the home, the wife will suffer a greater burden.  She will be suffering guilt for leaving her children, and she will suffer anxiety for not being able to manage her home.  Her health will suffer, as she can not get enough rest.  She will loose some of her innocent sweetness, as she tackles the job away from home. 

Truly masculine men will not ask their wives to go to work. They will try harder to provide for their families, or cut down on expenses so that their wives wont have to work.  Manly men will tell you that when women are not in the workplace, they get their jobs done much better. Women going to work has complicated the way things are done in the workplace, and this has not been good for the men. Men are goal-oriented, and women are relationship oriented. The desire for relationships is what makes them perfect for wives, mothers and homemakers. They tend to be more sensitive to the needs of the people at home.  Men, being goal oriented, just want to get their jobs done.  When women are at work, they have to worry about relationships with these women, while trying to work. It is better for women to be at home, forming relationships with their own families.



When a wife takes over the burden of providing, the husband relaxes.  There are men who have sent their wives to work, while they look for a job.  Sometime, women are sent to work, only to find that their husbands become house husbands, staying home all day waiting for the mail, looking for an answer to a resume, or hoping for money to be sent to them. Instead of looking for ways to better manage their income or cut down on expenses, men want women to work so that they can keep up their accustomed life.  A man who wants his wife to work, has shown a weakness in character, and a lack of manliness.

http://homeliving.blogspot.com/2007/01/please-daddy-let-mamma-stay-home.html

If you have children, the decision to stay home should already be made.

If you have no children right now, you need to realize that the moment you become a mother, your duty is to stay home and raise your own child.  People used to do it in the past, before money and conveniences were so available. I, and others like me, remember mothers at home in days when life was a lot harder. A mother could live in a tent and still never be tempted for a moment to leave her children to pursue a career. She knew that she was there to be the major influence in her childs' life. Today,all our decisions seem to be related to money. Try thinking for a moment of other reasons to stay home. Don't let money rule your life.

There are husbands today who demand that their wives work and bring in as much income as possible. No one has the right to send a wife to work if she does not want to. God, the supreme being, has already mandated through his word, that women should guide and keep the home. Where God has already commanded, mankind cannot legislate. We do not need "permission" or "approval" from husbands or anyone else, to be the keepers at home that the Bible describes.  Many women panic the minute their husbands lose a job, and start seeking employment outside the home. I lived in an era where men were often unemployed, because there were many jobs that were seasonal or temporary. Yet, women seemed to be able to adjust to this, and even expect this. Still, they didnt take matters into their own hands and get jobs. For one thing, jobs were usually available for men, and women prefered to be home.

 What has happened to convince women to leave their homes to work?  It has been a massive word campaign, which I called "word-ology" since the 20th century, to persuade women that they are being cheated by being "denied" jobs, or by "having" to stay home. When words are emphasised or twisted a certain way, people start believing lies.

Men need the responsibility of being providers. It gives them something to excell in, gives them pride in their families and gives them something worth living for. Work is good for them, but they need women at home helping to make that money stretch, and make a man's work worthwhile. When he sees her doing her best to save money and be creative and resourceful, it makes his burden lighter. Yes, women can stay home, but they need to make it a lifestyle that is simple and inexpensive, so that money does not go back out of the family coffers as quickly as it comes in.  The family economy is an entire skill that each generation has to learn. It requires knowing how to make things from the raw materials and how to be innovative.

 What used to be the inconvenience of temporary employment for men, has now become an "emergency" and women feel they have to fill in the gap.  Men are now "falling back" on their wives, wanting them to work. If a woman will work outside the home, a man will let her. Women control their own destiny, by either following what the prevailing culture demands, or following the Bible.

87 comments:

Anonymous said...

As a daughter, what can I do to encourage a gradual shift towards this kind of thinking in my family?

lynn m said...

Fabulous ....wonderful...excellent...such a support and great instruction! I wish this could be published on the front page of all American newspapers for the men and women to read and put into practice...as it used to be!!!!!! I so appreciate this message as I sometimes still ruminate over "to work or not to work"...but NEVER again!!!
Lynn M

Candy ♥ said...

amen!

Anonymous said...

My Dad wanted my mother to work and my mother bought into the whole feminist thing. My sister and I paid the price!!!! We were negleted and felt unloved. There just isn't enough time for a working mother to be there for her children. What is more upseting is people assume teens don't need there mothers as much so women should have jobs. I wish when I was a teenager I could have begged my mom to come home because I really needed her!!! I needed her attention and love. I made sooo many mistake as a young girl because my mother was just too busy. I remember feeling guilty wanting to talk to my mom about my problems at school,boys,etc because she had all this paperwork to do and was exhausted. I am 34 now and I grieve at all my mother and I missed out on. The worst part was we had plenty of money, but looking back sooo much was wasted because I had to go to a special girls home that cost 2000 a month. I ran away alot and was rebellious. Now that I am older I realize the reason I ran away was because I was angry and thought my parents didn't love me because they neglected me. I wanted them to hurt like I did so I would run away. I could go on and on but I just wanted to comment that a mother should always put her family first and men should not ever ask their wives to work. People need to wake up and see kids just aren't making it in this environment. It is soooo sad!!! Money isn't everything. Trust me nothing my parents could have ever bought me could ever replace all the happy memories my family and I could have had. Thanks be to God he has healed me because I did and do suffer because of my child hood even after 20 years. You see that little lonely girl is still inside of me and God healed her. For those who had stable loving homes you are so blessed. And for all the men and women who have families make your families your priority. Trust God not man.

Anonymous said...

Nobody can take momma's place regardless if she is married or parenting solo. The older I get the more I see the need for mothers to be home full time while there are children in the home. More women can come home full time if they so chose. I realize that not everyone can, but more can if they just roll up their sleeves, slash the debt, and rework the budget.
If single mothers can do it, it should be possible for married mothers too.
L.
www.singlehomeschoolingmommas.com

Clare said...

God bless you for your courage to be so counter-cultural. I agree, and I pray that by staying at home my son and daughters will have good models (by God's grace) and my husband will be built up.

I always wanted to be a SAHM, and when I told one of my friends while at Uni, he said 'but I don't think that will be enough for you!' Such a 'spirit of the age' indictment of motherhood. Fortunately nearly every day proves him wrong :)

Jan Hatchett said...

Praise God that hubby and I have decided that I put in my notice at work tomorrow morning! Once that is over, I can't wait to get back to homeschooling my children!

Anonymous said...

HI Lady Lydia

I was wondering if you would be able to do an article of what one should say when a husband says a wife "has to earn a living?"
Especially when he says a wife should obey her husband in all things.
Also, what if the children are grown and a husband says... now she needs to help me earn money for our retirement?

Please help!

Thank you so much

Anonymous said...

Congratulations Mrs. Hatchett!

LadyLydia said...

It might be easier to add these questions to the existing post. I will try to do that soon

fallenstar80 said...

Thank you for this post. I was raised by a joyful stay at home mom. I was ashamed to admit that all I wanted to do was stay home as well. Now into my 2nd year of staying home the embarrassment is gone. My husband is thrilled I am home. I have so much to keep me occupied. Our son is almost 18 months at it is a joy to know he will grow up having a mom at home and dad who supports keeping the mom at home.

Anonymous said...

YES, YES, YES! Thank you.

Anonymous said...

Yes, it's the children who suffer the most. There is no way around it. Children need their mothers, and mothers should stay home to care for them. It is not a responsibility to be pawned off on someone else who will never care for them like their own mother.

~Alexandra

Anonymous said...

Lydia you are such a wise powerful woman! I love your posts and you speak so much truth!

- Mrs. Monise

Laura of Harvest Lane Cottage said...

Bravo!

Anonymous said...

I applaud you in this blog... every-thing you said is oh so true, i think one of the problems in marriages today is that it doesnt always take 2 working to make it, people just think they NEED to have the finer homes, cars, and materialism and for that it may take 2 working, but I say if people would set their tastes more simple, it wouldnt take 2 in most cases working to make it. we live in a double-wide home, our cars are 10 years old, in good shape but their not new. yes we sacrifice the better home, newer cars and dont always have alot of spending money, but i get to not ''have'' to stay at home with my children and i wouldnt have or want it any other way. God bless you and thank you for the courage it took to write this blog.. AMEN to all you wrote it the blog,,, ventetta from tennesseee

Anonymous said...

Amen, amen! Women trying to build relationships with other women at work since we're relationship-oriented resonated with me, as I recently left a daycare after 1 and 1/2 yrs; I loved the babies but the political nature of the women, and trying to get along (one was a bully) was torture in the end and I begged God to get me out. Praise God my husband said, "I don't care if times are tight, you quit if you want to". He is commission-only so the burden is heavy on him. I try to be frugal, and am so content to cook and make a home for us.

Anonymous said...

Excellent post Mrs. Sherman, i couldn't agree more. You are always inspiring for me, and gives me that extra"push" I need to keep up my duties.As much as my husband would have liked me to continue working (part time), due to being in a car accident last year, I have been advised to stay home from work, and continue receiving medical treatments. Well, he didnt realize how smoothly things go when I'm home FULL TIME. Now he's a convert. Since he is retired, when the children are in school, we run errands, shop, work around the house, etc. He would miss the companionship if I were away all day.

Anonymous said...

A wonderful post, as always!

~ Ann

LadyLydia said...

"he didnt think it (homemaking) would be good enough for me" --that's that "word-ology" I was talking about in my post. Its a way of getting you to consider something a disadvantage by the way it is billed, or worded. It goes on all the time today.

Anonymous said...

"Manly men will tell you that when women are not in the workplace, they get their jobs done much better. Women going to work has complicated the way things are done in the workplace, and this has not been good for the men. Men are goal-oriented, and women are relationship oriented. The desire for relationships is what makes them perfect for wives, mothers and homemakers. They tend to be more sensitive to the needs of the people at home. Men, being goal oriented, just want to get their jobs done. When women are at work, they have to worry about relationships with these women, while trying to work."
This is so true. My husband works with three women and says it's very distracting at times because they spend time chatting together about any and everything - from shoes to more intimate problems. One in particular talks about the problems going on with her son from her first marriage as well as her ex-husband, and has shared things like this freely with my husband. It makes him uncomfortable. As I write this, he is away for a week with this particular woman(she is remarried) and another male co-worker at a conference in another state. He absolutely did not want to go and tried to get out of it but couldn't. It's just an uncomfortable situation. Thankfully, although he is employed full-time with the company, his boss allows him to work from home three out of five days a week. He loves it and has told me often how much more he can concentrate at home and gets much more accomplished. I enjoy having him at home as well. We have our meals together and a coffee/tea break in the afternoon out on the deck. He is a very hard worker and this allows him to take a relaxing break in peace and quiet away from the workplace stresses. Eventually he would like to work full-time from home but until then we will appreciate what we have now.

Anonymous said...

When I was growinng up men were ashamed when they got disabled and had to temporarily have their wife work. Even if it was doing sewing for others at home till they recovered. Now women are asking what to say to their friends when they want to stay home like it is the wrong thing to do. This is another of the ways our world has flipped from the right side to the opposite. Everything I grew up with as the way life between men and women they have turned it around. The scary part is they believe this is the way it has always been. Or that they are liberating women from the drudgery of only being home. Since the young girls have not seen or been ministered to by older women who know this is not so, they believe the lies. You cannot convince some people that women loved and wanted to stay home....that life there is fulfilling totally and we don't yearn to be working outside of our chosen domain of our homes. I sometimes feel like we are living in another universe. One was here for hundreds of years and in the last 40 or so it changed totally. I know the change gradually took place little by little before that time but it has sped up so much since! When the older generations die who will be left to be witnesses to what our country used to be like? That so many of your are raising children the right way and with God's word is a real incouragement to me. ...and to our world. April

Anonymous said...

Lydia,

Fantastic article!! I pray God it all turns around sooner rather than later.

Anonymous said...

Good job. I have been pondering your blogs. And walking home last week, I realized another great cost our society has faced because the parents are both working; The safety of our neighborhoods. When I was a child, we played outside.We knew which ladies would be looking out their windows or on their porches checking on us. The neighborhood children were always nearby for a game. And we were safe to play in the street and our yards. I miss that. I am afraid to let my son play outside unless I can be with him and I always wondered why our our neighborhoods changed so much. Your blog showed me why. No one is home to watch over things anymore. The kids are in school/daycare for long hours a day. It is just sad. Thanks for writing. Love it. For those ladies on the fence. I spoke to my husband about coming home, and he surprised me by saying he would love it.

Jenny said...

My dear husband took a day off from work yesterday for us to do some major purchase shopping. We talked to a salesman who informed us that he had only been working at that job for a few weeks and that it was totally unrelated to what he studied in college. He was recently laid off and seemed so thankful to have this job. Later when showing us a picture of his wife and child, he proudly stated that his wife was a stay at home mom.

I liked this young man from the start, but when he told us his "story," my esteem for him quadrupled. He was barely into his twenties, but it seems he already had his head on straight.

Anonymous said...

You are very brave to write these truths. Thank you.

LadyLydia said...

Women have certain strengths that men do not have and should be free to use them. When sent to the workplace, they lose the opportunity to use their female instincts for the home and the family.

Anonymous said...

Jenny I hope you told the young salesman how proud you were of him doing right by his family! That was an encouraging report to hear! I read the comment by the women about the unsafe neighborhoods and yes I remember knowing just which mothers watched out the windows the most often myself as a child. We knew for blocks around which home especially would welcome us if we fell off our bikes when out or such. I remember each house on the streets and the only women who worked taught piano in their homes or cut women's hair and such at home. The majority of the familys had a parent or a grandparent living with them too and that was the norm. No one grumbled. The older person was an intrical part of the working of the family. Everyone had pride in their country and city and home. It was not just how I saw it I have talked to many a person and they all knew it as the same. We celebrated with the families when they had something to celebrate if it was a graduation of a new citizenship in their family. The whole street at least knew about it and was celebrating. How could it have changed so fast? I hear from some that it remains the same where they live and I am so thankful for that. Yes you are so right this is.."the way it should be"... April

Anonymous said...

Lady Lydia,
How do you encourage an older lady to enjoy being home? We know an older lady who is home after years of working and all she does is go on and on about how miserable she is. The four walls close in on her, she is depressed and on medications, refuses to do anything other than sit around watch tv and read trashy romance novels. She cannot find a job do to her age so she sits at home and mopes about how she can't bring in any money to help her husband pay the bills. We have told her about making things to sell, gardening, etc. but everything we say is met with a poor me attitude. The family knows what the problem is: she is lazy and she cannot afford to go out and spend money so she wants everyone to feel sorry for her. How can one encourage someone like this to enjoy their home and surroundings? She lives in a very large, newer home, over an acre of land, trees, chickens, etc. there but she refuses to make it nice. There is so much potential but she refuses to see it.

Anonymous said...

You are right about the neighborhoods. In the old days they were loosely fitting areas where people had property around them, to farm and grow food, but they knew what was happening all around them, and they watched for each other's children. Not just physically, but they watched for their souls, also. That may sound foreign to some people today. It meant keeping tabs on their conduct so that they did not bring shame to their own family, or wreck their character and thereby lose opportunities in the future. A child was "known by his doings" as the Proverbs say. It was important for children not just to be safe but to be protected spiritually and not corrupted in their manners. If we saw something like that happenning we intervened immediately with no apology. Nowawadys you are told to butt out, but thats so the bullies can butt in.

Anonymous said...

Without women at home, kids lose their sense of stability and balance, and grasp on to popular culture. You can see a big difference between a young person who has had a lot of attention at home from parents (including discipline and guidance) and those who have not.

Anonymous said...

Lady Lydia,

We moved to this city a few years ago to take a new job for my husband. He has lost his job twice since we moved here.

I am very proud of him. He lost both jobs because he doesn't compromise on what is right. Many wives could have told him to just lay low in order to keep his job.

Instead, I felt at peace each time. I knew that my husband was right, and that God would provide. I continued to stay home and told my husband to go out and look hard for another job, and I would continue to take care of everything at home. I know women who's husbands have lost their job, and now the wife expects the husband, since he has more time, to share more house work.

I sent my husband out the door, with no guilt on his part, to be free to seek something else, even spending time calling friends, or reading books, or take a short class, that could give him leads to something new.

Each time he got a better job than the last. We continued to have children during the times he was off, and though we had to "make do", God did miracles to take care of us, and timed everything just right to take care of us.

I think it is really important not to go around talking about your "situation", if your husband looses his job. No one in my family, or friends even knew what had happened to us, unless my husband himself told them, until after my husband was working in another position. Don't go around sharing what an awful thing is happening, and you just don't know how everything is going to work out.

I think the act of going out to try to work and "rescue" the "situation" is very disrespectful to your husband, and usually only "nettles" the wife who is doing it, causing her to become angry and bitter with her husband, and show her disapproval of him. This can be a time when your marriage breaks up, if you don't handle it calmly, and with faith and love.

I feel that, any time in the future, my husband could lose his job again. There are no guarantees. Don't see it as a horrible situation, see it as a normal thing that happens to any "real" man, who takes stands for things, or struggles to actually accomplish things in the work-place. If you stand up for anything in a battle, you are going to get shot at! Even if your husband did something "wrong" to get layed off, the only way he'll get through it and learn his lesson is with your silent grace, allowing God to convict him.

Anonymous said...

I am in total agreement with this post. Thank you for sharing.

In the late 1970s women in my area were leaving home to go to work to "find themselves". I ended up caring for their kids until they came home from work sometimes well after dark.

The reason I cared for their kids is because the kids were lonely, and afraid to stay home alone so they planted themselves at our home to play with our kids until their mothers returned home.

Even though I was support for their kids, I was criticized for not going to work and contributing to the family income. Hmmm, I thought going back to work was to "find myself".

I submit to you they were not concerned about our income or my finding myself. They were guilt ridden for leaving their children alone. Misery loves company.

What they found was exhaustion, and neck deep in housework on the weekend that didn't get done during the week and they found themselves or their husbands in the arms of others.

They also found they had to buy new masculine style clothing to wear at their new jobs to compete with the men, their car gasoline bills rising and the cost of putting infants in daycare was stagering.

Did this bring them back to their senses and homes? By no means.
They were discontent and had to have new cars, furniture, clothes, bigger houses to fill with all their new toys, and a sense of importance to make up for the lies they believed about being worthless housewives that they got from the feminist media and afternoon soap operas.

What they got was debt, divorce and disobedient troubled kids and instability. They were not content with what they had.

Too soon we get old, too late we get smart.

Prov.31:10-31 shows what the worth and character of a noble wife is.
Titus 2:3-5 exhorts Godly older women to teach the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their own husbands so that no one will malign the word of God.

LadyLydia said...

Re: Daughters. To encourage your family to see the value of women as home makers, concentrate on making the home a real home. When you see things that need to be done, do them. Begin your day as a homemaker and practice for your future.

To the question about going to work for retirement: Retirement is something that is saved for from the beginning of your husbands employment. He should have had some invested from each paycheck, into a retirement fund. Many people pay into social security every single time they get a paycheck, and even self employed men pay into it. So, the argument that the wife needs to work for retirement money is very weak. You have to really have missed out on something if there is nothing saved up for retirement, either investment wise, or from your employer.

Regarding the scripture that says "see that the wife obey her husband in all things," let us remember that the husband is not supposed to require anything of his wife that God would forbid. His word does not change, even when the economy does. Each family has its own internal economy, and the wife is obligated to be a keeper at home, not commanded to work by the sweat of her brow to provide for her family.

Kristen said...

I am currently a mother of three. I became a christian in my late teens. By then, my philosophies were engrained from 18 years of public education. I never doubted my parent's love for me, but we went through rocky times because of my rebellious wordly feminist thinking. Little did they know that the school they were sending me everyday was teaching me a death-filled way of thinking. Not until I began reading the Word that my mind and thoughts became transformed. As God renews my mind, I can't believe how much of my thinking is really feminist-based. God is faithful and with the guide of the Holy Spirit, I am seeing more clearly the true design of woman and your blogspot has been a great source of inspiration and whole-hearted "Amens."

Mrs. C. Shifflet said...

With tears in my eyes and gratefulness in my heart, I thank you for saying what has been on my heart and has needed to be said for a long time. Thank you for the courage to stand for what is right in the eyes of the Lord and leading us onward in the way things should be. You are a great encouragement to all ladies!

Anonymous said...

Thank you, 8:48 a.m. for the note about trusting the husband to find a suitable work and honoring his integrity rather than pushing him to have a job at any cost. I was very inspired by it.

Anonymous said...

I love your article and agree on every point. I stayed home with my quiverful of children. Three of my four living daughters work outside the home. It breaks my heart that someone else is raising my grandchildren. Two of them are very poor, because they like to spend money and married weak men. The third is frugal and married to a good man. He's been out of law school for three years now. She will not return to teaching in the fall. The fourth daughter quit working as soon as her first child was born. Hurray! But the other two families are exactly as you describe. How did I raise daughters who are feminists? How did one of my sons adopt this attitude? I sent them to public school, where they were indoctrinated without my knowledge. The fifth daughter died at age nine. They youngest son never went to PS and was led through a Christian Classical education. He is a strong, although sickly, hardworking young man, who wants a wife that is not a feminist.

Anonymous said...

Great article - hard to hear I bet for some, but very true. What interested me the most was when you mentioned that God is the one who mandated women being home and men have no right to dictate otherwise.

I often hear of women who work and do so because they fear they are not "respecting" their husband if they choose not to. Such things should be discussed/decided before being married, and if a man suddenly chooses for the wife to work he is not respecting his wife, nor his family's well-being.

All this makes me more grateful for the wonderful husband I have that supports me being home (and did so before we married). Lyn

Anonymous said...

Lyn,

The same thing applies to those who say that a woman working has to be decided between the married couple. It does not. It can be discussed, but always, God's word must win out. Otherwise, both people are losers in the scheme of things. Say that we must leave it up to the couple to decide is to say that it has not been decided by scripture and that God has left it up to man to determine what role a woman will have in the marriage.

Anonymous said...

I worked at a fast food place before I married and had children. I learned to say, "Is that for here, or to go?" "Do you want fries with that?" "Paper, or plastic?"

MarkyMark said...

Ma'am,

In principle, I agree with everything you said; even the stuff you said about men, I agree with it.

Having said that, the cold, hard reality here in the Northeast (USA, that is) is that making it on one income is all but impossible. Here in NJ, where I live, property taxes are amongst the HIGHEST in the nation! Property tax bills of $8,000 a year are pretty common; on a monthly basis, that comes out to $667. Combine that with all the other taxes here, and we only have a fraction of our pay left. In many cases, the wife has to work to pay the taxes.

Then, there's the reality that the economy has adjusted to two incomes. This is reflected in housing prices, which, during the boom, reached HALF A MILLION for a simple, three bedroom bi-level. That's absurd! Why did prices reach that level? While the answer is multi-faceted and complex, part of the answer is that sellers COULD charge that much for a simple house, and they'd get it. Why could they charge that much? Because of the wife's income, that's why. If not for the wife's income, the husband's income wouldn't support such a large mortgage. Since a single income wouldn't support a big mortgage, sellers would have to adjust their prices downward to reflect market reality. As I said, the economy has adjusted to the two income model now.

Thirdly, women are given preference in college admissions; they're given preference in hiring decisions; they're given preference in promotion decisions. They're also a 'protected class', so they can do pretty much anything short of murdering someone, and they'll keep their jobs.

Contrast that with men, who can and are fired for no reason at all. A simple, innocuous comment can cost a man his job, because it made a woman feel 'uncomfortable'. Because of the aforementioned preferences women get, it's also harder for men to replace their lost jobs.

Finally, 80% of the job losses have fallen on men in this recession. While some may argue that women are working in jobs less affected by the recession, part of the disparity goes back to the fact that women can sue their employers for being fired, and they'll be taken seriously. If a man tried doing the same thing, he'd be LAUGHED out of court!

In short, men aren't providing for their families like they used to because they CAN NO LONGER DO SO. In certain parts of the country, men lose too much of their income to taxes; if they could keep more of it, they could provide for their families. The economy has adjusted to the two income model, making it all but impossible to raise a family on one income. Three, men can lose their jobs more easily, and they have a harder time replacing those lost jobs, thanks to preferences women get these days. Finally, the vast majority of job losses in the recession have affected men; if they don't have jobs, then they'll be hard pressed to provide for themselves, let alone anyone else. Thank you.

MarkyMark

LadyLydia said...

That being said, Marky, what do you think the difference is, between the women who manage to fulfill their role at home full time, and those who do not? And, what do you see different in the situations of the men who are the sole provider for their families, and those who are not? There is a big difference between people who CAN and people who DO, as well as a difference between people who CAN NOT and people who WILL NOT. Where do you think belief and faith come in to the picture? And how do you think some religious groups, living with today's prices, (such as the Mennonites) manage to keep their wives home? Has it anything to do with teaching, or belief, or is it ALL about money? Is there only one way to allow women to be home--money? Or are there other ways to accomplish this without an added income?

Anonymous said...

You think the cost of housing and the lower wages for men are the problem, but what about the people in the 40's whose wives never worked and still managed to be home, making it work for the family, and even putting away some money for the future. Prices were very high then: you could not get a package of 24 socks at a big box store for a few dollars. You had to buy them singly, by the pair. Hardly anything could be bought cheaper by the dozen, except eggs. Families had one car and it could not be purchased on credit so they had to save for it. Life was hard! Yet women would not dream of giving up the hardship for an easier life by working away from home and leaving her responsibilities.

Aservant said...

Mrs. Sherman,

An excellent article, eloquent, without a misleading word.

Will someone from your camp, perhaps yourself, be at the national CofCC conference this weekend in Tennessee? I am traveling all the way from Oregon to attend. I hope to meet some of the like minded. It would be an honor to meet anyone associated with you there.

God Bless you in your work.

MarkyMark said...

Here's Part II

My point is that my brother could support his family on his salary; even though he lives in a gated community, if he'd not launched the business and left the equity in his house, he could have done it. He no longer had to come up with the thousands of dollars a month to cover the mortgage payment, because it would have remained retired.

Part of the problem comes from my SIL though, because she feels the need to work; she feels that staying home isn't 'stimulating enough' for her, not fulfilling enough. I mean, what would she do all day?! I'm kidding, but you get my point. She has a masters degree also, which means she's been thoroughly inculcated with feminist doctrine. Feminist doctrine says that it's a SIN for a woman to stay at home and rear her children.

Could my brother have supported his family on his income alone? Yes, easily; even living in the high income neighborhood that he does, he could have done it on his salary. My brother took out a fifteen year mortgage, and they retired it in half that time. He gets a company car, and their other vehicle is paid off. That leaves taxes, utilities, and HOA fees, which would have been no problem to pay on his salary.

I don't think he wanted my SIL to stay home, because I'll never forget him saying, "My wife has her own career." I never understood his need to say that, but it's clear that he expects my SIL to work. Anyway, a lot of the problem is attitude, because my brother could easily support his wife at home. Then again, she feels the need to work, even though she has two kids now.

I have to sign off. I don't know if this totally answers your question, but it answers part of it. My brother's situation is a microcosm for that of many people in America today; many people feel that the wife HAS to work, and that's just the way it is.

As for me, I'm in the process of buying a house. However, I bought it in PA, because I cannot afford to buy in NJ; even if I could afford the buy-in, the taxes would nix the deal. In PA, the property taxes are HALF what they are here. Could I support a wife on my salary? Yes, but it would be TIGHT! It would mean sticking with one car; it would mean using my motorcycle for commuting in the warmer months, so my wife could do stuff with the one family car. If I wanted to pursue my passion in motorcycles, I'd have to get old basket cases, then resurrect them with my own hands; even buying a decent used one would be out of the question. Buying anything bigger than the house I'm getting (a small 2BR with 850 sq. ft.) would be out of the question. Could I do it? Yes, but every penny would have to be pinched until it screamed, and I'd need a good, sensible woman to help me. Finding a woman like THAT in modern day America is about as likely as finding a unicorn.

Those are my thoughts, Ma'am. If time permits, I'll come back and finish this. Thank you, and good night...

MarkyMark

MarkyMark said...

LadyLydia,

Here's Part I

I think faith has something to do with it, yes. I think that attitudes (towards money, sex roles, etc.) play a role. Though I haven't hit all your points, I'd like to explore the latter point here, as I know something about this...

I have a brother who's a VP for a Fortune 500 company. This company is a household name; if I said its name, you'd know it instantly. My brother makes well into the six figures.

He married a gal who he initially interviewed for his company. She was your typical college chick. She was raised in a home where both parents worked. As my mom described my SIL, she wasn't 'raised to be a mom'.

My brother's job seems to be secure. He's worked hard to get what he has; he's even gone to school for his MBA while working! While he hasn't made as much in the last couple of years, he still earns in the six figures.

My SIL has gotten a couple of jobs, but she didn't keep them. One office closed down, the other outsourced its work. She didn't have work, and I know that my brother pushed her to find something. I remember him making a point to me that 'his wife had her own career'.

They decided to open a health food business, and have my SIL run it. They're both fitness nuts, and they both eat very carefully; the business is a good fit for them. My brother had the house paid off, yet he extracted the equity out of it to launch the new business.

Anyway, she got pregnant. I don't know if this was before or after they'd made the requisite contractual and financial commitments that went along with the business, or if it was after the fact. If it was after the fact, then they couldn't back out without losing tens of thousands of dollars. However, if she got pregnant before they committed to launching the business, that's something else.

Anyway, to make a long story short, my brother and SIL put both of my nieces in day care; though it's the nursery at their church, it's still day care. A rose by any other name is still a rose, after all.

End of Part I

MarkyMark said...

Ma'am,

Part of the problem is gov't interference. They don't WANT women staying at home; they don't want intact families. Why? Because, if we had intact families, why the kids would be taught such heresies that God is first, and the nation (i.e. the state) is second. When the state seeks to become god (note the small 'g'), it cannot tolerate any competition from anyone, even families, because they won't be worshiped as god.

Also, if wives were at home teaching their children, then that means that the kids wouldn't need to go to those ubiquitous, gov't indoctrination centers, er schools. They couldn't be filled with PC garbage such as 'Heather has Two Mommies'.

I'm tired, so I'm going to sign off. I'm sorry my reply isn't more coherent, but I'm not, so my response is not. Have a good night...

Markymark

Sabine said...

Expectations really have changed. Homes used to be so much smaller. Only one car is needed if the wife stays home. We've never had more than one vehicle, even when I worked for a short time. We just shared the car and picked each other up when necessary. When I needed the car, I drove my husband to work so I could use it during the day.

When I was a girl, in the 50s and 60s, many immigrants bought a home and lived in the basement while renting out the rest of the house until the mortgage was paid off. People didn't have nearly the amount of stuff that they have now so they could fit into a smaller home.

Clothing was relatively expensive compared to today so we had fewer items and learned to keep them clean and in good repair (darning socks, mending, polishing shoes).

There are other options, besides buying a 3-bedroom home as soon as you get married. And that reminds me... what foolishness to spend thousands of dollars on a party (which is what the modern wedding has become) when that money could be used as a down payment on a house!

LadyLydia said...

To the query that came in about a conference in Tennessee: please email me at ladylydiaspeaks@comcast.net

LadyLydia said...

The question I have to MarkyMark is whether the belief comes first or the money consideration.

Will finances always be the first factor to consider when determining how to order your family?

Have you ever investigated the quiet families that manage to keep the wife at home and raise loyal children, to see how they do it?

Do ALL women have to work outside the home, or just the ones with high house payments?

Does the wife being home depend entirely on the cost of the house?

Is it all a materialistic thing?

What about the couples who base their beliefs and actions on what the Bible says about men being providers for their won families and women being caretakers of the home? How does faith and obedience to these Biblical principles bring success?

I think there are too many women saying, "It does not add up." I have always believed that if you do what is right, God will bring about the success.
I know many families where the wife is home. Some of the men have had job loss over the years and the family managed to get through it and recover, due to the creativity of the wives, without the wives having to get jobs. And, my big question has always been: if the husband cannot find employment, and his wife decides to get a job, why can't the husband get such a job? I believe a lot of jobs are offered to women,and not to men, and that is not fair. When was the last time you saw a man in a bank, a post office, or other places of business? In some of the small towns, there is not a man to be seen in businesses. I see women getting jobs because their husbands were laid off. Why can't men get the same jobs? If it is about conviction, a man must get a job and a woman can stay home. If it is about money, then money will come first. A conviction or a belief must be the deciding factor in what we do.

That being said, I do not think even men should just work anywhere, at anything, in order to make money. If it is a job that contributes to the ruination of families, such as selling products or goods that contribute to the downfall of families, he should rather suffer some poverty than gain at their expense.

I have always believed that we should do what is right, no matter what the costs or the results.

Aservant said...

Well said Mrs. Lydia.

Obey God's law and have faith that He will provide.

And to Mark, why all the stress about owning a house? You never own it, the system does, which means the bank and the government through taxes. It is economic slavery. God wants you to bow to no one, only Him. Any money you make is a blessing from Him, it isn't yours. Look at things like that. That is how you become free.

Anonymous said...

If you want the kind of wife who cares about the next generation and who will pass on your beliefs to the children, look to the home school daughters. Their parents have taught them how to do that. Many of these home taught girls know how to make things, make money stretch, and make do. What sets them apart is their honoring toward their parents. If looking for such a mate, make sure you find a completely homeschooled girl, who has not been influenced by the public school in any way. There are a lot of homeschooled girls who are waiting to find someone who shares their beliefs about life, the home, the family, marriage. Sometimes the men get too anxious and get caught away by the wrong kind of women. Set your standards high enough that you are not easily caught. It is best to choose someone your parents are enthusiastic about.

MarkyMark said...

I have a few minutes to answer Aservant, so I shall do that.

Why buy a house? Mainly because it's CHEAPER than renting. I rent a small, 2BR apt and a garage. I'll be able to get all that in my new place for more than $200 LESS than I'm putting out now-and that's BEFORE the tax advantages. Being able to write off mortgage interest and property taxes will mean I come out about $200 more ahead. That means I'll come out $400/month ahead of where I am now.

I'll have a longer commute though, so I'm figuring that'll cost me some. At the end of the day, I'll be coming out $200-$300 a month ahead. That's a big reason why I'm doing it.

Secondly, when you pay rent, you ARE paying a mortgage; the only difference is you're paying someone else's! You're paying the landlord's mortgage and taxes. Either way, you're paying mortgage & taxes; if that's the case, I might as well pay my own, amen?

As for never truly owning the property, you're correct. Even if the mortgage is paid off, if you skip the taxes, you lose your place. I realize that. Then again, if you're renting, you don't own it, either. At least with paying a mortgage, I can at least determine: 1) whether or not I'm allowed to have pets; 2) whether or not to install carpeting; 3) determine the colors used therein.

It seems to me that, regardless of what one does, one is under economic slavery. I'm familiar with Prov. 22:7, but as I said above, if you rent, then you're just paying a mortgage for someone else.

Those are my thoughts. With that, I need to eat breakfast. I'll be back here tonight to answer LadyLydia's questions-or at least try to...

MarkyMark

MarkyMark said...

Sabine,

I can make a quick response to you too.

WRT expectations, I've noticed this during my house hunting. Most of the houses I can afford are older; the houses I looked at were built 1900-1960. Compared to newer houses, the older ones are MUCH smaller. Also, people had far fewer clothes back in the old days, something reflected in the smaller closets older homes have. Today, closets are the size of what a small bedroom used to be; they're called 'walk-in closets', because you can literally walk in them.

Have expectations changed? There's no question about that.

MarkyMark

MarkyMark said...

LadyLydia,

I'll try to take a quick stab at answering your questions.

In many instances, such as my brother's, keeping expenses down (e.g. house payments) would permit more wives to stay at home. Having one car rather than two helps; cars are expensive. Lower overhead means less money needs to be brought in to cover said overhead.

Does faith matter? Yes, it does. However, when one's faith has been shaken as mine has, what does one do? As a tech person, I deal with numbers. What if the numbers don't add up to allow provision of a family on one income?

Also, if God is all powerful, then why does He permit things to become the way that they are? For example, why has He allowed the feminization of the church? A lot of pastors won't DARE preach on a wife's duties, because women have undue influence in the churches these days. Because church is so feminized, I haven't been in over a decade.

As for the families who do live on one income, there are precious few of them to investigate. The few that I've known of over the years seem to share some common traits though.

The biggest one of these is a serious commitment to their faith (whether Christianity, Judiasm, etc. doesn't matter; it just matters that they're committed to the tenets of their faith). I'm talking about being at the church, synagogue, or mosque whenever the doors are open; I'm talking about spending an hour a day reading the Bible, Torah, or Koran. Along with that commitment to faith is a separation from mainstream society and all its inimical values; the few traditional families I've known over the years don't interact with society any more than absolutely necessary. They don't have TVs; if they do, then it's set up to play back tapes or DVDs only; it's not connected to the antenna or cable. Another common denominator is that the husbands and wives only marry people like themselves; they marry someone of like mind and faith, which means finding a mate within your respective religious community.

I don't know if I've answered your questions. To me, it's akin to which came first, the chicken or the egg? I don't have an answer. I have to go, so I'm signing off. I'll be back later...

MarkyMark

Anonymous said...

If you were to pursue your interest in motor cycles, you may find you have more work than you ever dreamed of, and be able to be home based.

LadyLydia said...

I agree that rent is exhorbitant and a waste of money. You are just paying someone else's payments and never making a real home. I believe that banks should have nothing to do with houses. Bankers hand in the house industry is a way of controlling the family.

Anonymous said...

Previous generations were smart enough to keep their overhead low: they had home based businesses, living upstairs while having a shop downstairs. Today, men have house payments and then have to go to work somewhere else. Most of their salary goes into the house payment. It does not make sense, especially if you cannot use the house for a home business and make it pay for itself.

LadyLydia said...

Mark,

I have noticed the same thing: the families that want to follow the Biblical model, find that they have to preserve their culture by withdrawing a lot from the public.

It does not hurt them, and it builds strong individuals who, no longer disstracted by social things, can concentrate on innovations and skills.

Marrying within your own beliefs is essential and it is worth praying for and waiting for and not compromising.

You may have studied some of the reasons for choosing a certain type of mate, in history. One, the mate had to be chosen carefully because of her influence on the man's future children. If no children, still, her beliefs would have a big effect on the couple's decisions and on their economy. The effect of her actions would be felt in future generations.

We have forgotten that we are not just raising one generation. What we do will have a big impact on our descendents. That is why having the right mate with the same values is so important.

The families I know where this has been practiced, are happy. They do not expect to be accepted by the world, and they do not think the world has anything much to give them. They are do-it-yourselfers, yet they seem to find friends of like minds and do not have the kind of anxiety that other people do.

Anonymous said...

This is for Markymark
I'm not entirely sure what your position is. It seems that you are saying that you agree that men should work and support their wife in principal, but to not think it is practical in today's world. If I am misunderstanding you, I apologize but that is what I am responding to.

It is very much possible for a man to support his family without sending his wife to work if he considers it a priority. My own DH has supported us for our entire marriage without requiring me once to earn a penny. He works in tech as well. We have a large family and his income is not huge. He has lost his job several times during our life together. Due to family reasons, we've moved to a location with a higher cost of living. But God has always provided for us.

You have many options should you decide a peaceful domestic life is what you want. Hiring out your wife should not be an option for you if you believe it your duty to provide for her.

Even on paper it has been shown many times that sending the wife to work is not as profitable as it seems. Some have even found it to be at a financial loss. Since you enjoy facts and figures, here are some articles for you:
Here is a study from 2008 that shows "traditional" men earn about $8,500 more per year than more "liberated" men.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080922090801.htm

The two income trap i.e., Families that have both parents working are coming out worse off than those with one.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2004/11/two-income-trap

There is an article I can't find right now that shows that a stay at home wife helps a man's career. Maybe another reader can post it.

I hope you find a way to make your family life succeed, for the sake of your future wife and children as well as your own.
HKA

Anonymous said...

Hardly any woman at home has been in a constant stable financial state. Most of us grew up with fathers that had temporary work and our mothers expected this and adjusted to it. We wore clothes handed from the oldest to the youngest when they were still wearable, and we only had one pair of shoes per year. It is funny how we can tell stories of this kind of thing, like tying shoes with string to hold the soles together a little longer before summer ended and the new pair came in the mail. Or going barefoot except on Sunday when we got to wear shoes. Keeping a set a good clothes for church. Wearing the same clothes every day and washing underwear out at night because your mother only used the washing machine on Saturdays. Eating what your mother father grew in the garden and canned for the winter, and when you begin to run out, adding more water to the soup. Then the garden would grow again and it would be fresh and delicious all summer. In winter we made our gifts from PAPER (Yes, Lady Lydia--some of us still remember) and we didnt get in the car every day to go somewhere. We saved our list and went to the store only once in awhile and did all our errands that day in town. Our mothers seemed happy and less tense than mothers today. The children played on their own property instead of being ferried to ball games everywhere. Our mothers seemed happiest then, didnt they? Looking back, I think they actually basked in that kind of life, and yet they had no jewels and no cars and very little in the house. My own mother had one or two things to wear, and wore them out before she got something else. I always remember her as being happy.

Anonymous said...

The feminist critic claims that women work harder than men and make a greater contribution to the world, yet she keeps a boyfriend. Why would she need a man?

MarkyMark said...

Anon0352,

I've thought about earning money from my interest in motorcycles, but that's a few years off yet; I have much to learn. That said, I purchased my new house with that in mind. The previous owner rides too, so he had a nice, 4 foot wide door installed between the garage and basement, so you can walk a bike from the garage into the basement-nice! The basement is big enough to turn into a small workshop, which is the plan.

I've long wanted to do my own bike work for a couple of reasons. One, a man should be self reliant; part of that means being able to fix things. Two, the LOGISTICS of getting a bike to the shop is a pain; you have to take the bike there, get a ride back, etc. Finally, I want to save money, and doing my own work is a good way to do that.

At present, I'm doing minor maintenance, such as lubing and adjusting the chain, checking & tightening the spokes, or adjusting the brakes, clutch, and throttle. My first step is to do more challenging maintenance on my bike, like synchronize the carbs, adjust the valves, etc.; to do that, I need to get a shop manual for the bike.

Another part of my plan is to get a 'fixer-upper' bike, then do whatever needs doing to make her road worthy. I'm not going to tackle a basket case, but a bike that's been sitting for years and needs TLC would be a good candidate. I'll probably need to do a couple of those before I get really comfortable with my budding mechanical skills.

I didn't have shop in HS, so this is all new to me. Even if I have the shop manual right there to walk me through the given task, I still need to develop the FEEL for working with the tools, parts, etc.; this only comes by experience.

Then, as a next step, I think, will be to get a bike, fix it up, then sell it for a profit. I'll do that a few times to hone my mechanical skills. Once I get good, then I could think about working on other peoples' bikes.

MarkyMark

MarkyMark said...

HKA,

Though I would have liked to have been married, it's not in the cards anymore. I'm 48, which is too old to have kids; assuming I could find a decent woman to court (a huge challenge in itself!), you're talking a good year or so before marriage. That'd mean I'd be 49 or 50 when I got married. Then, it takes time to have the kids; tack on another year or so. That puts me in my early 50s! I won't be able to do stuff with the kids, like throw a baseball, stuff like that.

For lots of reasons I won't get into here, I've missed my window of opportunity. Besides that, I'm pretty well set in my ways, which makes marriage inadvisable. I really, truly think it's God's plan for us to marry young; for so many reasons, it's just better to marry young.

Speaking of window of opportunity, that's even assuming I could GET one! Finding a decent woman these days is so hard that it isn't even worth the effort. Fine ladies like you all are so rare that gold is as plentiful as sand on a beach...

To put it another way, the women worth having got married early, and they'll stay married. That leaves me used up, jaded women who hate men. Whether they fooled around too much while younger, got divorced, or they had children out of wedlock, the women I have to pick from are not worth having; they're damaged goods.

Do I think a traditional marriage and family is the only way to go? You bet! However, I've missed my opportunity to have one, so I have to live with my choices.

MarkyMark

Anonymous said...

MM - I agree. Men do not want fixer-uppers, any more than women do. I do know of men who have found just the right woman in their 50's, who are happily married. There are woman who have never maried, because they cannot find the man with the same beliefs.

MarkyMark said...

Anon1620,

Though you may know men who married in their 50s, the odds aren't with them; they aren't with anyone marrying at 40 or older. If a person reaches 40-45 and has never been married, there's only a 1% CHANCE OF EVER DOING SO! Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No.

At this point, I've resigned myself to staying single. I haven't looked in years. I do keep my eyes & ears open in the unlikely event I meet someone decent, but that's all. If it happens, great; if not, life will go on, and so will I.

MarkyMark

Anonymous said...

Marky,

My husband and i have been married now for over five years. I was 34, he 53. For the both of us, it was the first time, no prior marriages etc for either of us. he never believed in his wildest dreams he'd ever marry; and 14 weeks from first meeting, we were wed. he's brilliant!!

We're a small house, one car couple (I can't drive due to vision disability - www.satogo.com software allows me computer access with speech). if an over fifties man and a blind woman could marry, for the first time at ages that many would consider to be too late, with everything else that folk would view as burdens or obstacles, then its possible for you also... Neither of us were really looking...

He's fantastic re my disability and the little things that make life easier are no burden for him. he works a hard, but fair-paying job, I do what I can around here; good cook, keep the house well (need help every fortnight to get the sight--important things that I miss and that he doesn't catch), but it works. very well. As for house prices, Australia's capital cities have some of the most expensive real estate in the world; even more expensive than equivalents in paris, new York or London...

We're making it, and once its owned, its owned, we do not have to pay a perpetual tax on it (except for folk in the Australian Capital Territory wheer all land is 99 year lease)...

Take heart and be of good courage, the right girl is out there...

Sarah.

Badbeans said...

I have found that most critics of women staying at home have one of two perceptions: women who stay at home are "kept", and that they do nothing but watch soaps or what their husbands tell them; or that, more accurately, staying at home and raising children is a lot more work and a lot harder than working outside the home. For those who have such strong reactions, I would guess that they fall in the latter category. I am thankful that my wife stays at home with our children. She homeschools three of our five children, keeps our house clean, prepares meals, drives children to piano lessons and karate, washes clothes, and a number of other things that I cannot even begin to name all while trying to maintain sanity while spending 24 hours a day with children ranging from 14 years to 6 months. This is definitely harder than my job as a controller of a manufacturing company.

One gender complements that other. This is God's order. Those who have tried to deny this order have done nothing but hurt themselves and their posterity, if they are blessed enough to have a posterity. Women are natural born nurturers, driven much by their heart and emotions; thus Paul directs women to "obey your husbands". Men are driven by method and habit. Men are not multitaskers, but have one track minds; thus Paul directs men to "love your wives as yourselves." Paul understood the nature of both genders and directed each to be mindful of those natures. Men are not better than women, nor vice versa. We are complimentary to each other, and we should recognize this a be content with it.

Anonymous said...

I agree with what you've said here. Especially this part:

"Where God has already commanded, mankind cannot legislate. We do not need "permission" or "approval" from husbands or anyone else, to be the keepers at home that the Bible describes."

My husband told me last year that he wanted me to get a job. Not to help with the bills. He pays most bills ahead of time and sometimes pays more than what's owed. He wanted me to get a job, he said, so that I'd have my own "spending money". I was flabbergasted.

What he didn't say, and what I suspect, is that because his bosses and co-workers' wives work outside the home, he thinks I should too.

I didn't want to get a second job (being a housewife is a job, even without the paycheck), but I looked. While looking, I prayed that if it was God's will for this to happen, that I would get hired. I didn't.

It was only then that I truly sought God's will and looked into what scripture has to say about it. My eyes were opened to God's truth on the subject. In addition to scripture, I also "stumbled" upon several blogs and websites that supported the teachings of scripture and helped me to understand things more clearly.

Over the past few months, I have found contentment and satisfaction because of my acceptance of God's command that I be a keeper at home. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about it.

When you do things God's way and put your faith completely in Him, expecting Him to uphold His Word in your life and not allow things to happen that would force you to disobey Him, then things can only work out in such a way that you are able to stay home.

I've told God that I'm trusting Him to allow me to stay home no matter what my husband says, no matter what society says. It is God who will judge us, not man. So it is God we must obey.

I'm also considering homeschooling my kids. Certain circumstances at my kids' schools have made me really think about it. So I've asked God to help me with the resources, patience and ability to do this.

LadyLydia said...

I agree with you.

Something no one has said here is that for a lot of women, going to work outside the home would be a severe financial loss. Those living a long way from a workplace will pay more for transportation. It is not worth it. It also makes more sense to stay home and do things yourself, so you do not have to buy everything ready made.

MarkyMark said...

Ma'am,

What do people say when confronted by the EVIDENCE? What do they say when they see the numbers showing how much it costs to have the wife working outside the home? You have the second car and all the costs associated with it (acquisition, operation, maintenance, insurance, etc.). You have the acquisition costs of the wardrobe and the cleaning costs thereof. Eating out, which will be necessary, costs money. You get the idea. So what do folks say when the evidence is shown to them, and they see how much that 2nd income costs a couple? That'd be interesting to hear...

MarkyMark

Anonymous said...

LadyLydia,
Finances is another reason I decided to stay home. I used a dual-income calculator, found online, and discovered that if I were to get a job outside the home, we would actually be losing money. Between the cost of gas, childcare, clothes, lunch and so on, it just doesn't make sense for me to work outside the home.

Not to mention the many days of work I'd have to miss, especially if we didn't have childcare, whenever my kids couldn't be at school.

My husband, unfortunately, said, "I don't believe it for a second". Again, flabbergasted. There was no bias. A calculator can't be biased. The numbers don't lie.

Fortunately, my husband has backed off in his demands that I get a job outside the home. I've been praying. Hopefully he's starting to come to his senses. As I said in my earlier comment here, if my getting a job could actually bring in money, it's not needed. My husband has no problem getting all the bills paid on time, plus spends some of the extra money on "toys". Two new TVs (one of them costing $4000), surround sound system, Blu-Ray player, a DS, a PSP, etc.

Nothing wrong with buying things you like, but don't then turn around and act like it's somehow necessary for your wife to get a job outside the home.

MarkyMark said...

$4K for a TV?! I've never spent that much on a motorcycle! At least a motorcycle can function as a form of transportation as well as a toy; indeed, I've always bought my motorcycles with that in mind. I often used it as my primary transportation when gas prices were going crazy, as were lots of other motorcycle owners...

LadyLydia said...

It is interesting that women are using the "its the bad economy" excuse to leave the home. What is their excuse during times of a good economy? It seems to me that men have bought into feminism and want their wives working in a good economy, in any economy.

As far as whether or not a woman should leave her husband if he does not provide: there is nowhere in the Bible that says she should leave him. I dont know where feminists get that idea. It seems feminists can't do anything moderately. They seem to want to make things so hard and make life so miserable so that even when they decide to follow the Bible, they manage to make that miserable too.

The best thing to do is follow the scriptures and make life wonderful at home. It is the best thing for the men and the children. Helen Andelin's book, "Fascinating Womanhood" had a chapter on character and one on managing to make a dollar stretch. One reason to stay home is that you do not have to buy everything. You can make a lot of things or do without a lot of things. Women who really do not want to stay home, will always find excuses. The home has been weaker and weaker as more and more women leave their responsibilities of marriage and raising children, and keeping house.

Anonymous said...

I live in the country. I do not have to work, since my husband has a business that he operates from our own property. It would not make sense for me to work, but a lot of people pressure me about it. They think it must be awful to be out here but it is not. I love my home. It is beautiful. It has memories of the past. I entertain a lot, here. My husband sells farm machine parts. We don't have to pay a lot for transportation, like people who work in the city. Most of the women I know, live in the country. It would make no economic sense for them to get a job outside the home. It would cost them money.

Anonymous said...

I am enjoying the comments by Marky Mark and others. I did work for 3 years durng the middle of our married life. The children were grown up by then. My husband's job hours had been cut severly and his health did not permit him to get a second job. I worked to help financially but finally I came back home. We realized the extra $ was not worth the change in our home. I brought my lunch from home and did not have to buy any new clothes to work in and the work was only a mile from home so not much gas allownace... still even though it ended up we could put most of my check in the bank it was not worth it to us. Earlier in our marriage my husband had been out of work for a year and without any government or other aid we managed to pay all the bills. We should have learned from that experience to lean on Him and not on ourselfs. My father remarried in his 70s as did another relative. Both widowed men said they would not believe they found such wonderful wives twice in their lives! We agreeded they indeed did find good wives!! Markymark...don't give up! From reading this and other blogs of like thinking you know there Are good women with common sence and feelings for home out there still. Many of the women who write are single. You won't find one keeping your eyes on the ground and not looking and listening to find one though. :) Have you talked to others about what is talked and preached about in their churches now? I know of many churches around here who are Not afraid to speak out. Where many of the women have gone through college but also are true believers. They have homeschooled their children...many mnay, many families. They do not live impoveraged lives etc. They also have raised daughters {and sons} who believe in daughters being home and who know how to keep homes and all it consists of. Also they have been given a very high well rounded education ... They do not stay unto themselfs but are out and about in the community. This is not the first generation of such. Many are out there your age. I do not have more time to make better sence but wanted to comment.

Anonymous said...

Markymark. If you find a wife do not worry so about having a child. It will or will not happen. I have had friends who married later [many by the way} and they did not have children but they became involved in other children's lives. As Scout masters or in church groups or other activities. My family has several uncles and aunts that are not by blood but adopted by love to us. You can and will find families to enjoy. Even single there are others to enjoy life with. My nephews that did not marry still have many activities where they work with youngsters and enjoy social outings with other adults. They even work on motor bikes together! Thanks for sharing Markymark...glad you added to this discussion and hope to hear from you again. Sam

Mrs. Q said...

Lady Lydia~
I am being so very blessed by your blog! I thought I was the only Christian woman who believed that a husband really does not have a right to "send his wife out to work". For hasn't God already given us a command to obey? I am so thankful I have read these posts from you on this subject~a wife can feel so pressured to make up for her husband's lack of monetary gain in this world--especially from him! I have been in the position of a husband demanding his wife go out to work before & a pregnancy finally brought me home after a year (was supposed to be a "temporary" thing, according to my husband), and I will not do it again. Everywhere else I have read that if a husband demands a wife go out & work, she must do it. But I have always believed, as you do, that our place is keeper at home because GOD says so.
I am so encouraged by what you have written--I can go about happily with my homemaking duties and know that I am not crazy for believing as I do!

MarkyMark said...

Mrs. Q,

This is Part I...

Scripture is quite clear that women are 'to be chaste, keepers of the home...'; you know the rest.

Having said that, please understand that the world is biased against men. The government, its laws, business, everything is biased against men these days. Women get preference in college admissions.

Where one goes to school influences all future opportunities; whether it's grad/professional school or work, one's undergrad alma mater determines the opportunities one will have in the future. Women get preference in hiring decisions; they also get preference for promotions and raises. This has a deleterious impact on a man's ability to provide for his family.

Then, combine that with the fact that women are a protected minority (how one does this while comprising 52% of the population is a mystery to me, but that's another rant), whereas men are not. Women can get away with things in the workplace, and they will not lose their jobs. For example, they can bash and trash men all day long, and it's okay; if the company tries firing them, the women can file suit. If a man gets fired, he has no recourse. After all, he's a man; he's an oppressor; he DESERVES it! That's the meme facing men out there these days.

Then, one has to consider that, since women entered the workforce, that salaries have not kept pace with inflation. Why? Because the supply of labor was essentially DOUBLED overnight! Econ 101, via the Law of Supply & Demand, tells us that, when you have a greater supply of something, that the price of that something will come down. In this case, the supply is labor; because labor's supply basically doubled overnight (in historical terms), wages and salaries have not.

Also, there is the fact that the economy has adjusted itself to the reality of two incomes. For example, try buying a house on one income; I dare you! For example, during the housing boom, I saw a 3BR, bi-level home going for HALF A MILLION dollars in Bridgewater, NJ-half a million bucks! Why were home sellers charging such exorbitant prices? Simply because they could. Why could they? Because it's against the law (equal opportunity or some such garbage) to ignore the wife's income when applying for a mortgage.

If the wife's income were not factored into the mortgage application, then there's no way most people could come close to qualifying for the kind of mortgage a half million dollar home would require. Again, sellers charged outrageous prices for their homes because they COULD.

On to Part II

MarkyMark said...

Here's Part III for Mrs. Q...



Having said that, here's my take: make a humble, yet impassioned appeal to your husband to remain at home. Show him that you'll be careful with the money he brings in. If you don't know how to do this as yet, show him how you plan on learning how to do this. When he wants you to do something, do it in a cheerful, happy manner; do it in such a way that communicates that there's nothing more you'd rather do than to please your man. If he's a decent man, he will respond to this.

I've not tried to attack you, Mrs. Q, and I hope my remarks were not taken in that vein. I said what I said because the Bible (II Cor 6, IIRC), where it talks about being unequally yoked, mention's a wife's conversation winning their unbelieving husbands to the Lord. Conversation means her words, her deeds, and the spirit behind them. Is your 'conversation' what it needs to be? Only you can answer this.

One more thing: men have been programmed that, if they don't want their wives to work, then they're male chauvinist pig oppressors. They're called this by women. Since men are hard wired to do things for women, they go along with 'wanting their wives to be fulfilled in the workplace'. Besides, like you gals, we've heard nothing BUT the feminist metanarrative for the last few decades.

I mouthed that PC BS for a long time, though it always bothered me at an instinctive level. Many guys no longer have a problem with their wives bringing home the bacon; I can think of at least three guys I work with whose wives make the majority of household income. I could never, ever go along with that in my heart of hearts; something about it just BOTHERED me! I could never be married to someone who earned more than me than besides a temporary basis (e.g. helping me out if I returned to school). I always felt that it was MY job, not hers, to bring home the bacon.

Even so, the way society is presently constituted makes it hard for men like me. How can we get a good, lucrative job when they're all given to women? How can a man bring home the bacon when he has little OPPORTUNITY to do so? That being the case, I'd rather remain single than have a wife support me! That is too emasculating for me...

I'm going to close out this long winded comment. Men have been condition that they're bad if they don't have a working wife. Men have fewer opportunities to be traditional husbands, especially with the way society is presently constituted. As for your situation, please make sure you're cheerfully submitting to your husband in EVERYTHING as of now! Do make an heartfelt, humble, yet impassioned appeal to stay home. Also show how this is better for the family; men respond to logic more than women do. I hope that this helps, and I wish you a good day. Let us know how things turn out, okay?

MarkyMark

MarkyMark said...

Here's Part II for Mrs. Q...



Better yet, I'd like to see preferential discrimination in favor of men when it comes to work. Even now, in this 'enlightened' age, men have no choice but to work till we drop dead; it's a given that that'll be our destiny. Since men do not have the option of quitting; since men are still expected to provide the lion's share of a family's resources (women still marry up, even in these 'enlightened' times); why not give preference to men when it comes to college admissions, jobs, and promotions? After all, who's going to need them more? What will enable a return to the traditional family? Finally, would you and your traditional sisters be willing to GO ALONG with this?

Oh, and don't forget that men have borne the brunt of job losses in this recession or depression! Between that and the legal biases out there, men: 1) can lose their jobs more easily; and 2) will have a much harder time replacing that job. Again, this will have a deleterious impact on a man's ability to provide for a family on his income alone.

Now, getting back to the question of submission, here's my take, FWIW as a single guy. One, you have a clear, Biblical commandment to keep the home. Two, you have a clear, Biblical commandment to submit to your husband; I don't require seeing any qualifiers or exemptions to this. Three, Acts 5:29 says that we ought to obey God, and not men. That verse is talking about having license to disobey man IF AND ONLY IF we're commanded to do something violating the Scriptures. Having said that, I don't know if you should go against your husband's wishes; my first inclination would be no.

Now, I have a question. Do you submit to your husband now? More importantly, do you do so cheerfully? IOW, is your attitude one where you'll grudgingly do something because he wants you to? Or, are you happy to do it for him? Perhaps your attitude is getting in the way here.

On to Part III

MarkyMark said...

Mrs. Q,

I just took a gander at your drawings, and all I can say is WOW! You are talented! I wish I could draw, but I can't. You clearly have a gift for art. Perhaps you could bring in some extra money selling your work? Seems to me that would be Proverbs 31 like...

MarkyMark

MarkyMark said...

Mrs. Q,

What I forgot to say in my three part comment was to pray for your husband, and have compassion on him. As I stated previously, he's been affected by the feminist virus too, only in a different way. Women were told that, to be good, they had to leave the home. Men, to be good, were told that they had to be okay with this. Anyone, man or woman, wanting a traditional family, is a pariah in today's society. As Laura Wood says that home makers are on the FRONT LINES of the culture war.

I'd say that this applies to men too. Though we're not herd creatures to the extent that women are, guys don't like going it alone too often. This is especially true since men have been emasculated; too few men have the COURAGE to go alone anymore. Anyway, if all of a guy's buddies have working wives, the one who doesn't will feel left out.

Men of courage aren't encouraged any more; if anything, they're criminalized. Anything masculine (and courage is a masculine trait) has been demonized, bashed, trashed, and, in many cases, criminalized. We have many 'girly men' now, men who want to go along with the herd like women do. When's the last time you heard of a courageous, lone wolf spoken of in a positive way? I know, and I rest my case.

In any case, have compassion on your man, because he's suffered from the same societal programming you have; it's only affected him differently. Pray for him. Be the best helpmate you can be! Be like Aaron and Hur, and help him hold the staff against the onslaught of this world.

Please let us know how things work out. Have a good day...

MarkyMark

Anonymous said...

I come from a home where both parents worked, and i dont want to replicate it. It sucked for the children, and apparently it sucked for them too.

So, where do we (men) find these women who still want to be homemakers?

Mrs. Q said...

~MarkyMark

I am sorry, but I forgot to reply to your comments.

I guess that you misread my initial comment~I *once* worked full time outside the home, but am no longer. Our 2nd child was 5 months old when my husband asked me to look for part time work because he didn't have enough hours at his job. I was offered a full time job and my husband said I should take it, "temporarily". He was supposed to at least get a part time job, but instead he quit working altogether and stayed home with our children. Needless to say, it was a disaster. Everyone at my job knew I was miserable and hated every moment there. I would drive home at lunch time to pump milk for my baby, all in the name of submission to a husband who wanted me to work for pay. 6 months into my job my husband finally returned to work but then injured his back. I had to go back to full time as he stayed home and tried to recuperate. It is something I never, ever want to go through again.

Finally, after working outside of the home for a year, I had to "gently" remind my husband that I would be having our 3rd child in a few months and finally he returned to work.

I have been home ever since but have had a job from home taking phone calls for companies, and that is no walk in the park either, because children can not be making any noise in the background and it takes your time away from them.

I understand what you're saying about being a nice, sweet, wife and praying for my husband (I have for the majority of our marriage). I know I am no perfect wife and could always have room for improvement, but if I had just said "Okay, honey, I'll work." I'm pretty sure I would still be there, out in the workforce and away from home and our children.

There were many times that I said to my husband, "Well God says I should be at home and that's what I should do." In the past he would not agree with me and just thought I was stubborn, but now he does agree with me, at least for the time being while our children are not grown.

Thank you for the nice compliments about my artwork. I do have a God-given talent but find it very difficult to have time to devote to my artwork, especially when my homemaking skills need such work since my mom did not teach me a thing about it growing up. Perhaps some time in the future I will be able to devote more to it, but it is quite busy now with 6 children 8 and under. We shall see!

~Mrs. Q

Mrs. Q said...

MarkyMark,

I also did want to mention that as of November, my husband's hours have been reduced to 28 hours a week (and he has a very meager salary). But still I am at home, taking care of the family. There have been many times we have wondered how we were going to pay the bills, but God has provided every time in many different, miraculous ways.

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