Victorian Family at Breakfast, 1840
Since my last post, my father has been in the hospital, so I have not been able to get my mind on anything else, and that is why I have not posted very much.
I was thinking today of a quality of that generation that seems to be fading today: Privacy. Parents, though friendly and open about their beliefs and some of their interests, never divulged personal things like the state of their finances, or their reasons for living independently and explanations about choice of occupation or choice of anything.
While protecting their own privacy, they never exposed the privacy of anyone else, and did not cross-examine anyone when they gave them personal information, nor did they try to be overly curious about anyone else's privacy. That generation kept a respectful distance with their curiosity.
Privacy today is looked at as some kind of a flaw. The people born back in the 1920's, as my parents were, kept certain things to themselves, and in my observation, it kept their children and those around them more polite and calm. Today, curiosity is considered bright and intelligent, which, to a point, it is, but it has to be used for the right things. Too much airing of personal things can create a very nervous society.
As I learn more about the heritage of these people, I realize why they were able to accomplish so much. They reduced their words and increased their activity. They didn't constantly express their anxieties or explain details of their lives. This brought a sense of settled peace and contentment. Because you could not get verbal information, you would observe, and usually, what you saw in the lives of these people was a reflection of what they believed and what they were up to. You did not have to question it.
Privacy is not respected today, and the older generation complains about it. As I grow older I notice that people ask questions and expect the answers, and sometimes will re-phrase the question in hopes of extracting the answer. As I get older, I've received questions about my plans for where I will go when I get old, and how much money I have, as well as things like, "Haven't you had your wisdom teeth extracted?" and "Are you experiencing the 'change of life' yet?" and other personal questions that make me blush.
The older generation does not just believe in privacy, they practice privacy. They believe, as I do, that practicing your beliefs and standing your ground establishes them in the minds of others.
We have been bombarded with so much of the "tell all" mentality, where nothing is personal anymore, that an older person is looked at as an oddity if he does not want to answer personal questions.
That being said, I do hope to post again soon on a lighter subject, and, in the interim, I hope to see some comments about the value of privacy and how it builds the inner man and comforts others, or just leave a note about your observations regarding the erosion of privacy.
Another reason for my absence is that I have been trying to learn how to use an ipad. This is an extremely difficult situation, since I am emotionally attached to the dinosaur computer. It is slow-going. I want to blog from it but it is going to take some time to feel confident.
I would like to request that those of you who are followers of Christ, in the Lord's body, to pray for my father's recovery, if you have time. I want to protect his privacy but also tell you it has something to do with a heat wave where he lives. Dehydration is a problem and also fluid on the lungs.
60 comments:
I'm very sorry your father is in the hospital and I just prayed for him and will continue to do so as the Lord brings him to my mind.
And I am VERY interested to read the comments on this post. I agree with you about privacy. It's something I struggle with because I tend to automatically answer any question that is asked of me....I'm not sure why and it's something I'd like to work on.
I think daytime talk shows and "reality" TV has made this problem even worse.
Blessings and Prayers,
~Michele
I will be praying, cousin.
Will be praying for your Father. It is difficult when one is long distance.My husband is a private person and I tend to go the other way. He is a great help to me in being an example to follow. It goes along the line of "respecter of persons" I think.:)
Privacy also keeps him and I close to each other and knowing I can depend on him & he hopefully on me when there is something no one else needs to know. It somehow makes me feel safe. I hope i cam making sense.
Regards, Becky
I am sorry you father is in the hospital and pray that he will recover. I was brought up to never ask personal questions or make comments on a person's appearance, their clothes or possessions. If their behavior was out of the ordinary, I taught to ask them if they required assistance. Then, it seemed, a generation arrived that giggled if their children made rude comments or asked personal questions, like "Why are you bald?" Instead of reproving their offspring, the parents seemed to think that this inquisitiveness showed a precocious intelligence. Unbridled curiosity can prove as destructive to the character as lust and avarice.
I will be praying for your Father dear Lydia. I never thought much about this topic until recently.. since my husband has been in a nursing home I am always getting asked things, (ie.. why can't you care for him at home) "advice" on what I should do etc. It is very difficult. Winston is a very private person and would tell people to mind their own business! I am not so strong, I try to be polite but some people make it hard to avoid such questions. One lady was the register operator at the store I was at and I couldn't get away as she told me all about how she and her friend both cared for their husbands at home... It's hard to not defend myself!
We were warned that "curiosity killed the cat." I don't exactly know where that saying came from, but it is likely connected to a story. We were taught not to run over to look at something, in case it was dangerous. And we were taught not to ask questions but to observe and see if the answer might be seen.
I find that my husband and I are seen as a little odd as we value our privacy but are fairly young, being among the generation of people who tell all. I tend to be very open so there are a great many things I am perfectly comfortable sharing, but there are still areas I like to keep private. The thing I'm finding people understand the least is our decision not to have Facebook or twitter accounts for the reason of protecting our privacy.
Linda,
I feel that we need to restrict people who would , just out of curiosity, ask a personal question, because it keeps people in propriety. If we tell them the answer they are seeking, we encourage them to pry, and we are doing them a disservice. I recently was asked why I was wearing a dress and a hat. While I sometimes explain that it is pretty and I like it and I enjoy it, there are other times when I say it is my personal preference and leave it at that.
Prayers have been said for your father. Give him a big hug.
I always leave your blog feeling calm and in some way altered. It's like when I read a wonderful magazine.
Thank you!
Anita, this is the type of questioning that older people are complaining about. When they refuse to answer, they are considered senile. Although I know you have nothing to "hide" I think it is important to limit your answer to something like, "Please try not to worry. We have the absolute best care we can find, in this particular circumstance." When we get older, our husbands are older, too, and it is very difficult for an older wife to take care of an older husband if he is disabled. Often it is best for a staff of several people to care for him.
Hello Lady Lydia.
I have been reading your blog for quite sometime now. I stay at home. Although I am not a Christian, your views have certainly made rethink how I want to live my life, and how I'd like my marriage to be.
Anyway I hope you'll accept my good wishes for your father, and thanks for your blog.
While we dont have anything to hide, I believe it can be risky answering some of the more innocent questions such as what are you doing today and what did you buy and how much did it cost, and does your daughter ever visit you and how is your grandson, etc. The reason I believe this, is that I've seen the way people create a story out of these seemingly innocent subjects. I do not use social networking, as you know, because it involves revealing personal things, although I do know and respect that some people use it to showcase their blogs or their business or ministries.
Anonymous: you are welcome
Thank you, Lady Lydia, for allowing us, your readers, to help your father as a "prayer force" at this time. And I don't think you divulged too much of his situation here...just enough so that we can petition our Lord for help for him.
As to the privacy issue, at large: it's gotten ridiculous anymore the way people will spill their guts at the slightest thing. I don't have a background in psychology or psychiatry, but I feel confident saying that it seems the "tell all" style of conversing with people came about because of Talk Therapy. Wasn't Freud considered the founder of this method of treatment for mental illness?
Anyway, if you're not giving out details like candy, then it must mean you're holding something back (that your listener believes he/she has a right to know), & so that must mean you're ashamed of whatever you're holding back, and....
There's a time & a place to share, & there's a time a place not to share, as well. In the end, it's probably kinder, to those outside one's situation, to say a little less than a little too much.
Brenda
I am so sorry I deleted the last comment about what people say on cellphones. Please post it again when you get time.
I'm posting anonymously this time in order to protect my family's privacy....My question is how do you get someone who is revealing too much to you to stop? There are some in my family, whom I love dearly, yet rarely call on the phone because I just don't want to hear all about who is sick and what disease they have or details about other people in the family that I don't feel is right for me to know. I don't mind their sharing that so-and-so is sick and needs prayer, but I don't want to hear the details of the illness etc....
I don't mean to be selfish and it's not because I don't care, but I find after talking with them and hearing the details of all these bad events leaves me feeling anxious and/or nervous.
Praying that your Father will soon be well again. As for social media, the amount of over-sharing is astounding. It is nice to know that there are still some who value privacy. All the online chatter seems a bit juvenile at times, but those sharing are not teen girls which seems sad to me. It is if they are all shouting "Look at me! Look what I have! Isn't my husband/boyfriend the best? Aren't my children the cutest? " Oh my!
In any social networking, whether privately at home the old fashioned way or online, there is a danger of exposing your privacy and bringing disrespect, for some reason.
Some time ago I posted a video of the Danish queen speaking on the subject of privacy and why they do it. She said if they did not practice privacy the public would not see them relaxed and happy.
Also to prevent others from prying, old fashioned statements such as "thats on a need to know basis, and I dont need to know" or "you dont need to know"
I'm like Michele, I tend to automatically answer personal questions and I don't know why, either. I'm afraid of making the people mad at me if I say I don't want to answer that. Some of us need help with this.
Praying much for your father!
~Yvette, a reader
Thank you, Michele, cousin Rosemi, Linda, Anita, Christine, Yvette and everyone else. It is much appreciated.
Maybe we have to start thinking about things before we answer. When we listen more carefully we can find hidden information that they are trying to get out of us. Most of the time we do not answer just the question; we in fact, (in order to be perceived as warm and friendly) embellish it with additional information. I once knew a woman whose sons had rebelled and people were so curious about it. They would ask her if she had seen them or if they were okay, and finally she would say, "They are okay." and leave it at that, refusing to add more information. She was not trying to be in denial over the matter, nor hiding anything. What she was doing was preventing them from prying too much into her life , possibly concluding that she had done many things wrong, which caused the boys to rebel. And, she was wanting to keep the rumours died down, in case the sons ever repented.
Lydia, I pray that your father will be well soon!
Like some of the ladies above, I will answer any question, because I'm an honest person and don't want to be rude. I need to learn how to graciously maintain privacy. I think often of how Mary kept things to herself and pondered them in her heart. If any lady had a reason to brag on her child, she did, but she was humble and private. I want to be like her.
I will pray for your father's recovery as well!
I have the exact opposite experience with privacy. I am young, and consider myself a private person. However, people, especially women, feel some sort of need to tell me WAY too much personal information. I experience this with young women, as well as older women! Sometimes I blush at what I am being told and sometimes I have to tell the speaker to please stop telling me all their information!
People seem to think the thought that children were to be seen and not always heard when we were small was a bad thing. I took it for just part of life and felt honored to be able to sit and observe my relatives as they visited. I never understood what was so wrong with the thought that children did not have the right to monopolize adult conversations. We were addressed and talked to but knew our place. I never felt left out and actually felt more comfortable this way. Your comment on how the older generation said little and thus we had to observe I find so interesting...and so very right. So much I knew about our family was shown and not talked about. They showed how to live an honorable life through their everyday actions. Yes Lady Lydia i will be praying for your Father too and for your family who is too going through this with him. Sarah
Very interesting. And I agree that people are sometimes too generous in sharing information. I am from the more private persuasion. I enjoyed the comments on this subject too.
Anonymous, what is sad is that the older generation was made to feel that they were not open enough, with their children, because they did not talk about everything all the time or reveal personal details.
Janet, Tricia: Thank you.
I agree that these days, it sometimes seems as though we are expected to reveal all the minutiae of our lives, and as the other ladies mentioned, I too, find myself revealing more than I would wish to or should do because I do not want to seem un-friendly. Your post on this has really made me think I need to re-think this!
My prayers go out to your father and to your family- and thank you for once again, making me put on my "thinking cap."
P.S I know what you mean about getting used to the IPad, but once you do, you'll really enjoy how easy it is- I still find though, that using the old-fashioned computer with mouse, to be better in some areas.
I am sorry to hear about your father. I will include him in my intentions when I pray my Rosary today.
A couple of comments about privacy:
The "therapy" movement has eroded family privacy. If anything is troubling a family or child, parents are often advised to seek "therapy", sometimes by doctors. I had a troubled sibling growing up, and a parent who struggled with an addiction. My siblings and I were all subjected to weekly "family therapy", as well as individual therapy and group meetings, at various times growing up. I think it all did far more harm than good, and it sent me the message that I was expected to broadcast our (and my) problems. We had no religion and "therapy" took it's place, as it was supposed to fix everything, though it never did. The therapists would often ask probing questions, and I never felt I had the right to not answer. It also diminished my respect for my parents, as they were forced to admit shortcomings, promise to change, etc. in front of their children. If they failed to live up to what was said in therapy, the rift between us increased, and our respect went downhill.
There is also the idea of "support". That apparently is something we should try to get during a crisis, by disclosing our problems and asking for help. I have learned through the years that "support" is often offered by those who will sit and listen, then proceed to gossip with others later.
I pray about my problems now, and that is all the support or therapy I need.
Lady Lydia, thank you for this post. It remnds me of my sweet grandmother who I would say, suffered silently. She was always cheerful and seldom if ever aired her grievances. As a result, I remember her has very joyful despite trying situations. Her beautiful quietness is something I seek to emulate.
Lady Lydia, this has really caused me to reconsider the value of having Facebook. I don't think I want to continue that. I realize now, I do not need to know the details of peoples lives moment by moment and I do not need to be sharing mine. Thank you for helping me look into this matter of privacy :-)
What a great post and SO true! People today seem to think that you're up to no good if you don't want to tell them all of your business. That being said, I'll pray for your father's speedy recovery.
I have prayed that your father will improve and that you will be comforted.
I find this post interresting as I am sure I am one of those people who tell all and ask all.
Now I wonder how this happened. I remember the embarressment I felt as a young teen when they began to run certain advertisements on TV.The humiliation of it, and they only have gotten worse ,until this day even young children know exactly what they are talking about( and they are talking about EVERYTHING)and my girls also live under this humiliation. Sex education in a public classroom in 5th grade , things I was too embarressed to bring up to my own mother in privacy were taught on big screen to every girl in school and in the next room the boys were taught at the same time ,after that they acted like mini rapists. I believe my way of protecting myself is just to empty out my whole self publicly , the humiliation of being stripped naked in public(emotionally) looses it's power if I become a "stripper" you see. And so I tore down all my barriers and apparently seek to tear down everyone elses.
Because of your post here I have had it brought to my awareness and I thank God for you posting this. I try to follow in Christs steps and feel convicted when I see I have once again! been on a wrong pathway, and I am grateful to find this out now. you are certainly an encouragement to me who has been brought up in a vulgar society.I thank you.
So sorry about your Daddy! I have prayed and I trust for his rest and strength to return.
We are living in a tell all world, and your right it has given so many people to much information. As this does cause us to worry or fret.
I think it is because TV over the years have seared peoples motives and heart. We have become so unsensative. My husband is much more sparse with details to others then I, but over the years I have learned to answer back, but carefully as to how much!
I also wonder about that scripture that talks about meddleing in others affairs. Good reminder!!
Blessings, Roxy
All my life I have had people,total strangers, telling me lots of personal details,sometimes at length even though I don't like to hear these details. They can be details of their latest surgery or job problems or family issues.My children find this amazing and amusing as they have seen it happen regularly but I assure you it is not a good thing and can leave me feeling stressed. This may be the flip side of privacy where you are on the side of your own privacy but others feel you are obligated to listen to their personal information in full whether they know you or not!
My husband and I have declined being on a lot of social media. One of my children has been hacked in a vulgar way on Facebook and lurked on by adults who should know better though my child's Facebook was quite innocent.Overhearing loud and really personal cell phone conversations including a loud argument is common too.
I laugh with a tinge of sarcasm at the HIPA privacy agreements they make me sign at the dr's office. I have had them loudly try to discuss my or a family members condition or prescriptions etc. at the front desk or loudly ask for a social security number to be repeated verbally.
At the store they will ask for my phone # or email address or even a thumbprint (at JC Penney) and this occurs where others could hear me repeating this information if I would give it. I have been in a hotel alone with unknown gentlemen near me. The check in person will call out my room # and in full view map out where it is.So these everyday situations,let alone,one on one encounters become intrusive and possibly dangerous.
I do hope your father gets better, I will be sure to be praying for his recovery.
I am sending out a mental hug for you and prayers for your father. So sorry to hear of your trouble.
I deeply value my privacy and am finding it harder and harder to keep it. These days you are considered suspicious if you behave differently from others. Many times personal motives are misunderstood. Fear seems to reign in many situations. I live where I have close contact with Amish and they are people of action and few words. I admire them for their ability to remain apart from the rest of society. We could learn alot by observing them. In many cases I find I have to simply turn and walk away from a situation to keep from saying things I don't want to share. I usually politely excuse myself but at times I'm sure I appear rude when I don't mean to be. It's hard to know what to do. This is a great topic and I would like to read more about it in the future. Thanks for the post.
I, too, have immensely enjoyed this topic (the comments have been *fantastic*!)and hope to see more posts about it in the future.
Perhaps a post about how to have a conversation without crossing lines or probing....I'm thinking that many people (including myself) could use help with this. If we get better at it, maybe others in our lives will catch on as well.
Privacy is very important as it protects our families. We do not need to explain to others why we do particular things as those decisions are between ourselves and our husbands and no one else's business. I avoid discussing finances in public as that is most certainly private and not something others need to know about but I am often surprised by how much others will talk about it in detail.
With my closest friends I will talk about things I wouldn't talk about in blog land because I know them much better and can trust them. Blog land is much more of an unknown.
I'll be praying for your father.
I agree with the lack of privacy these days. I had an older nurse ask me if I, at my stage in life, had intended to have another baby. I was taken back by such a question. I have endured a steady stream of comments, freely given, about my age and my "condition" as if it is anyone's business or concern.
I do not go out of my to divulge personal information nor to question others about such things, and have taken the time to teach my children to do the same. I consider it just plain good manners.
Thank you for this post and for the comments. It's nice to know there are many like-minded folks in the realm of privacy.
Praying for you and your father...
Lynne
I do so appreciate everyone's prayers, even though you do not know my father. At this point, they are making him comfortable in the hospital, and indicate that they think he will not live much longer. He tells the doctors it is "pure speculation." His body is very thin, as he got dehydrated and malnurished. My passport did not arrive in time for me to get an early and timely start on my trip to see him, so we are taking alternative measures to get it sooner. Still, it will be a sad time for me and all my family and for my mother too. So your prayers are really appreciated.
We will pray for the Lord's strength and comfort for your family at this difficult time. My grandfather left this world many years ago, but the fact that he is no longer here is still very fresh in my mind. I have beautiful memories of my grandfather, a truly great man, as your father is as well, without doubt.
Privacy and the lack of appropriate formality is one of the major reasons I greatly dislike Twitter and Facebook and whatever else there is out there that is all the rage. Some of my children's friends have iPhones and I am very concerned that this is a great mistake. My children are not allowed such things and only may use the Internet on certain sites we have decided are useful for them and we do the searching -- they are not allowed.
As long as I have any control over the situation, the children will not be allowed to use Twitter or Facebook, no matter how many of their friends are permitted it -- and I am really amazed at how many people even within the homeschool community don't seem to worry about that.
I just saw this post. I will pray for your father, you, and all your family.
Very sorry to hear about your father, Lady Lydia...it is such a worry when elderly parents are unwell. He will be in my prayers.
I love your cheery yellow cape, by the way!
I'm very sorry to hear about your father, Lady Lydia...it is a great worry, but I'm sure you will tackle this with every resource...and he will be in my prayers.
I am sorry to hear of your father's illness Lady Lydia.
Regarding privacy: among other questions, I have been asked at a social gathering what the size (carat) of my (modest) engagement ring stone was, and had we bought a house yet or were we still renting!
I have heard a good response to an unwelcome question is 'what an interesting question, why would you want to know that?' but haven't been brave enough to use it myself yet.
I feel rude and intrusive even asking someone what they do as I don't think it is a very polite question, but of course it is commonly used.
My husband and I run a small retail store and I am amazed at the rude/personal questions people ask such as 'how's business going here' or 'do you get many customers'? I would never ask someone that! People often also tell us MUCH more than we want to hear about their private lives.
I want to commend Linda on her comment (1.12pm) also.
I have often wondered at how the pioneers and the Victorians before us handled things, including success, sudden poverty, grief, losses, etc. I think they had a different attitude, and tried to contain the emotion because it was proper. They were very careful not to allow little children to be overwhelmed with grief or fear. That is not what is happenning today, due to the extreme amount of airing everything. There was also a personal dignity to preserve.
I have been thinking about the topic of privacy lately, too. I was thinking there are, in my life, three kinds of "questioners."
One seems to be out to find something bad about you, so they ask nosey questions in order to find some sort of "chink in the armor."
The second kind are information gatherers and spreaders-- they just want to know so they can be the first one to pass it on. It is sort of like a hobby with them. Often in talking to these people, they dont' even wait for you to finish your sentences, so eager are they to be off with the pertinent information they got out of you. And they ask so many questions that you have to do a funny sort of conversational dance-- to avoid answering without lying.
The third kind are just people trying to be friendly, who aren't going to ask "digging" personal questions, but are trying to make conversation, or truly care about you.
It is the second kind of questioners that I have the most problem with. Years ago I started using a trick in order to evade such nosy questioning-- I tried to quickly ask them about themselves. People like to talk about themselves, so if I could get THEM talking than I wouldn't be the one talking! This worked for years but in retrospect, I feel that I wasted HOURS of my life listening to them talk about things I really couldn't care less about, or the troubled people in their family, or whatever their latest upheaval was. I asked often about them to keep them from asking too many nosy questions about my life, but then it made me look like I was a gossip. I still don't know how to handle people like that, except to seem rude and stand-offish. And if you start out friendly, but have to clam up later (when you find out what kind of questioner they are) it makes you look bad.
I have decided that the next time I meet up with one like that, I hope I have enough sense to right away establish that "I don't give away personal information about myself or others."
Thank you for updating us on your father's condition. You and your family have been in my thoughts and prayers and will continue to be.
Privacy is not just a list of things you should not ask about or talk about. It is a deeply respectful distance you keep when conversing. You learn about sensitivity and on some subjects, you "dont go there."
It is more than having rules, yet children should be taught what impertinence is and cheekiness and imposition is, and what things they say which are most likely to shut a door on a conversation or to put them at a social disadvantage.
It is sad that these days even older people will just blurt out anything. I was always shrinking from remarks that people said, when I was homeschooling, like, "How are you going to ever meet someone to marry? How will you get into college? You are too isolated, you wont be socially accepted" etc right in front of my young children. These comments plant seeds of discontent in some families, even if they are well brought up. These comments come from older people.
Another thing I want to mention is that I have never meddled with other people's children. I never phone or email someone else's child and give them my opinion, and yet the homeschoolers of my generation in the 1980's were innundated with people talking directly to their children to plant seeds of doubt about the direction their parents were leading them in.
Poor taste is another thing. In ladies Bible classes or other types of gatherings, even Christian ladies will ask questions that are of a personal nature (even if they are based on something in the Bible) which will throw the whole class into a controversy, or a conversation about something very personal or base.
Thank you for all your prayers for my father. He passed away yesterday at 9:30 am Australian time and 3:30 Pacific US time. He was 87 years old. I have sent out an email newsletter about him. Please email me at ladylydiaspeaks@comcast.net if you would be interested in getting it.
He died in Rosebud, Victoria, Australia. I speak daily to Mother and my brothers and sister on skype and they are doing well.
I'm sorry for your loss. You'll continue to be in my prayers.
Sincerely,
Jenny
Dear Lady Lydia,
I am so very sorry for your loss! May you find comfort in knowing you and your family are in my prayers!
Tricia
Oh Lydia,
I haven't re-visited the comments box for this article for a few days now; You have my prayers, dear sister; I am so sorry for your loss and the tyranny of geographical distance. I shall pray abundantly for you and your family, especially your mother and siblings.
may god's enfolding love and Divine Mercy be poured out upon you as an ocean of compassion from the rich abundance of His heavenly treasury.
Sarah,
Australia.
Lydia, I'm so sorry for your loss. I am praying for you and your family. I know that God is upholding you all!
Oh Lady Lydia. I am so sorry to hear of your father's passing, yet we all know going into Glory is a reward we all seek. Praying for comfort for the entire family.
I'm so sorry for your loss, Lydia. What a wonderful rich life he lived and was a blessed man he was.
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