Thursday, May 15, 2008

New Link

I am getting read to post a side link on the issue of Modesty. It will be a collection of links to good articles on modesty. If you have written any on your blog, please post your link here and then when the collection is finished, I will put it on the side under "Modesty Issues" where it can be easily accessed. If you know of any good articles on the web on this issue, especially for youth, please post the link. Thank you! Lydia


Anonymous said...

Hi Mrs Sherman, I wrote a post on slips(dress liners) on my blog- Elizabethian Tea at wordpress. It's

Charity said...

You are welcome to link to my Time to Bloom blog again. I hope it is a blessing to those seeking to live modestly.


Anonymous said...

Hello, Lady Lydia. There are several materials on modesty on this blog The last but one post has a link to a series by C.J. Mahaney on modesty. Some months ago (or maybe longer, I don't remember exactly), there was a whole series of posts on the girltalk blog about modesty (written by CJ Mahaney's wife and daughters).

Also, on the rebelution site can be found the answers to a quiz about modesty, in which numerous young men defined in detail what constitutes modest clothing from their perspective and what does not. It is a VERY inspiring site. Look for the modesty materials under the heading 'The Modesty Survey'

I hope this helps.

Have a blessed day!

Mrs. P

Lauren Christine said...

Hello Mrs. Sherman-
I also wrote about modesty a little while back, here is the link:

Thank you for organizing these! I look forward to reading them. :)

Lauren Christine

Anonymous said...

Looking forward to reading what others write on this subject. My second daughter recently wrote a paper about modesty for her English class at school, summing up her thoughts by saying "modesty IS the best policy". I was pleased she chose this subject to write about!


Tracy said...

Sometimes, I find these links don't work. In that case, you can search my blog for "Modesty and the Lack Thereof"

Rachel said...

Good morning, Mrs. Sherman!

I did a post about wearing skirts, and how I don't buy into the myth that skirts are limiting:

Also, I recently had a 'Celebration of Skirts' Week on my blog, which you can find here:

I hope you might be able to use these in your link list!

Lydia said...

A few weeks ago a homemaker wrote about the inappropriateness of Christian women showing cleavage... I'd like to know who it was and have that article also.

Dianna said...

You can see the LDS Church's modesty guidelines here by clicking on Dress and Appearance. These really helped me as a teenager.

~~Deby said...

Here is my link, I did the one on cleavage:

I only got ONE bad comment, which I did not approve as they were anonymous.


Anonymous said...

Glad you asked...I have an opinion about almost everything! ;)

My mother gave me some good advice when I was about to become a teenager. She pointed out that I was growing up, and that I would be doing more and more things away from our family. And even though I was at school, or in youth group, or later at work, I was still a representative of my family, and she expected me to reflect that at all times. Any breach of that would mean nothing good for me!

She was careful to provide me with stylish yet modest clothes all the way through college, so I always felt "well-dressed." (which matters a lot to a young girl!) She made sure my hair and much-later makeup were tasteful and appropriate. My skirts were always top-of-knee or longer, dresses and tops had short sleeves at least, and shoes covered my foot (and I'm so sorry I sometimes wear sandals now, Mother!) --it was a strict dress code, but it worked for me and I think teenagers need guidelines to work from.

I was usually dressed more neatly than my peers and often still am! I appreciate her guidance and carefulness with me. I was never disrespected in school or later on because the first impression I made was of a serious, careful person. Mothers can't be too careful in gently but firmly guiding their children to the importance of modest dress. Our clothes, whether we care or not, make an impression on everyone. Modesty matters!

Angela said...

You are welcome to link to my article on modesty if you like at

Also, another wonderful site for young girls and teens is

these women also hold conferences all over the country and have a book out entitled "secret keepers". I love this site and their books....they are wonderful for girls, and they will certainly challenge adults!!

Angela said...

You are welcome to link to my post on modesty at

Another website that is really geared to girls and young women is

They have several books also...I read on from the library called "secret keepers" that was wonderful. They also hold seminars all over the country. My cousin took her daughter to one and they had an amazing time!!! Hope these are helpful!!

Love your blog!!

Miss Angie

Anonymous said...

Lady Lydia, I have enjoyed your blog for a few months now, but never commented before. I read an article a few years ago which I have just now tracked down again. Here is the website (sorry, I don't know how to make it a live link):

It is called "If you don't want me to come to your party, don't send me an invitation!" It is written from a male perspective on how important it is for girls/women to understand the message they are sending to boys/men.

Thank you for your wonderful articles, Lady Lydia!

Katrinka said...

I don't have a blog, but I hope it's OK to post my thoughts here. Rather than guidelines concerning the appropriateness of specific articles of clothing, my thoughts on this are regarding the attitude of the christian/mother/wife. Before I became a Christian, I thought I was my own woman and I did as I pleased in my dress. When I became a Christian, I realized I had a responsibility to dress in a manner that reflected my position as a follower of Christ. Then I realized that I had a responsibility to dress in a way that reflected I was a married woman and was no longer available and did all that I could to honor my husband's wishes in my dress. Then later as a mother I came to realize that I have a responsibility to dress in a way to model modest dress for my children, but ALSO to not draw undue attention to myself or them or to place myself (hence them) in a dangerous situation. We are truly not our own when we are Christian wives and mothers and need to remember that our actions provoke re-actions. When I read the news I hear of mothers placing their children at risk because they feel they have the freedom to date whomever they want or dress however they please, without regard to the impact it will have on the safety of their children. I recently read of a woman who had two small (2 and 4?) children. She was about 24. She had invited two young men into her home, and they slipped her a drug in her drink and then raped her in front of her two small children, recording it on their cell phones. I'm told you could hear the little ones whimpering in the background. She, of course, pled innocence, but her actions were as criminal as the young men as far as I'm concerned. I read endless reports of child abuse resulting from a woman living with a man she is not married to and who is not the father of her children, and he abuses her children. How much would the instance of child abuse drop if women married one man, had children with him, and they raised their children together? I realize I'm deviating a bit from the modesty issue here, but it begins with an attitude. My grown daughter does not follow my modesty guidelines as strictly as I do, but I've made it plain to her that when she was growing up I dressed to please God and to protect myself (and by extension her) and I expect to see her do the same with her children.

We need to honor our husbands/fathers wishes on our dress. When I see a husband and wife together (especially in church) and she is dressed immodestly, I think to myself, "How could he let her go out like that?" Perhaps that's unfair, but since I honor my husband's wishes, I am automatically thinking that she does, too.

I can't sew as much as I used to, but if I couldn't find something modest I made it myself. As far as clothing in the stores, it seems they are determined to show our bosoms or our bottoms or both at the same time. I find wonderful long dresses with plunging necklines OR dresses covering up top, and then they always have to have a slit or be too tight.

Regarding the plunging necklines, we are all getting to see a whole lot more than anyone wants to see! What is it with all that cleavage?! Even nice blouses for older ladies have no 'top' button. I have to wear a brooch or something to pin it shut at the top. Sometimes I wear a tank top or sleevelss shell under blouses/dresses to cover the cleavage. I am astonished at what I see some of the older women wearing. I'm 53, and I think I can safely say that even from a standpoint of good taste (rather than modesty) there's a whole lot more being shown today than I care to see. I wonder what it does to the masculinity of our men, and the intimacy between a husband and wife? But I guess that's another topic!

My husband always says that women feel they can dress as they please without regard to how they are provoking men because we have such freedom today and such modern technology (i.e., cell phones, computerized cars that almost never break down) and such ridiculous attitudes toward personal accountability. He was in the law enforcement field for many years, and he believes women would dress more carefully and act more responsibly if they didn't know men were restrained by the threat of policemen. I was at the motor vehicle dept. a few years ago with my young daughter. It was a big city branch office and there were lots of rough men and it was very crowded. One of the clerks was dressed very provocatively, and when she came out from behind the counter to go to another part of the office, the men jeered, whistled, hooted and clapped at her. She quickly ran back behind the counter. It was a frightening feeling, and I was thankful that we were very modestly dressed.

Sorry this is such a long post. Please edit it as necessary.

Sarah Mae said...

Here's a link to specific articles on modesty:

Pure freedom also offers the "Truth or Bare" modesty test: You can download a colorful poster of it as well.

Anonymous said...

Modesty is an issue at church. I would love to see an article about how a church should address this without getting accused of legalism. I'm in Florida and you think maybe some people were actually headed to the beach and turned into the church parking lot by accident! I don't think people should have to feel they must put on airs to attend church, but certainly there is such a thing as appropriate dress. And many of the items worn aren't appropriate for a Christian to wear anywhere. And of course we want all welcome at church even those who were headed to the beach and felt lead to come to church instead!! Thanks for letting me comment.

Lydia said...

I am not feeling well today but I just had to comment on this last post.

You are right: the subject at church can hardly be approached without being accused of hypocrisy or judgementalism. They always bring up the scriptures about how man looks on the outward appearance but God looks on the heart, or they say that if people want to be distracted by the showing of cleavage or lots of bare parts on the body, it is their own dirty minds. My poor husband has been in soooo much trouble over the years whenver he teaches on the subject. People say "at least they are there, in church." However, there was an era when we were not so concerned about our popularity or our church population as to accept nakedness. What the Bible was talking about when it said people should accept wht is in the heart, was the tendency of some to regard more highly those who were dressed in richer clothing. I suppose nakedness in those days was considered poverty, and people looked down on it. But, today, such nakedness is conceit, based on labels and designer names. So, who is looking on the heart, and who is judging? We had a long series of lessons on judging, in which we were shown how we must learn to judge wisely in order to make good decisions. The girls dressed for a swim in the ocean when they come to church, are not using wise judgement at all. One can expect to see all sorts of offensive things in the world, but they don't expect to see the same thing in church. Every time someone objects to a lesson on modesty it is usually because they are defending someone in their hearts, or defending their own immodesty. Most of the time there is a big upraor over a modesty sermon or lesson, the girls are immodest. It seems to go hand in hand. Any time you defend something, you are holding it up as very important in your life. These girls know their bra straps and underwear are showing. They know when they sit down their skirts ride up 6 more inches to their bottoms, and they know their cleavages are showing but they are very bold in their insistance that they have a right to do this. It has to be taught in a way to get a personal, heart felt conviction that their bodies are special and should be kept under wraps. However, when I was growing up, I had no conviction except that I must do what my parents taught me. Parents teach what is right until the children reach a maturity to understand the reasons. The reasons will come later. Sometimes we have to follow standards until we reach an understanding.

Anonymous said...

On the church topic, I am appalled by what people wear to church. Of course, the teen girls, but you've all covered that, and the grown women are no better.


Sports jerseys?


T-shirts with writing on them?


Stretch pants?

And of course, there is the older generation there, who are not that much older mind you, only in their 50s, early 60s, dressed properly. Men in pressed khakis with a nice shirt, tucked in with a belt and proper shoes on. Women with a proper skirt or dressy pants on, dressy shoes, hose, a dressy top or a nice blazer. It's not that hard.

~ Ann

Anonymous said...

Worse yet is the insistance of 200 pound women on wearing shorts and negligee tops. I remember when women who were heavy would cover up so as not to reveal all that excess fat. Now they boldly let it all hang out.

Mrs. Anna T said...

I wrote some posts about modesty on my blog, those are the better ones I think:

Anonymous said...

Lady Lydia,

Debi Pearl's book "Created to be His Helpmeet" has an excellent chapter on this subject and she uses real letters from men to back up what she is saying. The chapter is called "Chaste".

It may be good to at least refer readers to her book. I know there has been some controversy over it but I think it is a book written compassionately by an older woman who has a lot of wisdom and wants to save younger women from pain and heartache and foolish mistakes.

One of her sentences in this chapter is, "It is impossible for a woman to understand a man's visual drive." This is something we all need to keep in mind as we dress, walk, bend over etc.


Sarah R said...

Interesting how this was posted recently. I sat in church today behind a young lady wearing a negligee top and no bra. My 11 yr old son could not stop staring at her. I got up after about 10 minutes and we moved to a different area. Then another lady walked in holding her baby, but wearing a spaghetti strap top, again with no bra.
I have to admit, I live in Florida too...and it was hot. In the 90s. But there are clothes that can be worn that are cool, without showing everything. I was wearing an ankle length skirt made of cotton eyelet, a slip, a short sleeved cotton blouse, and a crochet sweater to wear over it. I was not dying of heat exhaustion, and I was covered.
Oh...and I wore undergarments. I know that's a radical choice, but I had to go there!

Lydia said...

Granted, there are some ladies who just do it out of innocence, but many are bold and in your face with their immodesty, particularly if they've ever figured out that you are trying to promote modesty or be modest yourself. It is like a challenge. I was in one social gathering where the remarks were deliberately aimed at me and I was made to be so uncomfortable by their judgementalism. What was so strange about it all was that it was a gathering in my own home, and I had paid for all the food. I never would do that in someone else's house, but they feel an obligation to evangelize their beliefs (calling me old-fashioned and telling me that immodesty had nothing to do with predators or keeping our daughters safe) etc. And of course the same old, same old tired excuse "God looks on the heart and it doesn't matter what you wear to church!" Well if it doesn't matter, maybe my husband should present the sermon in his pyjamas, and I should go in my bathing suit with a skirt over it. After all they should accept me as I am. But I have discovered that if we did this, they would be truly disgusted. Yet, we are not to be disgusted at they way they dress. It is a double standard.
Someone sent me this quote:
First rule for any man or woman who wants to take America back is:

Never kowtow to the P.C. thought and speech police - ever.

Just speak truth, no matter who is offended.

JamesJames, New JerseyMay 18, 2008 @ 03:07 PM

Anonymous said...

You might like this article, which I wrote. It draws a correlation between modesty and immorality. I share a few practical examples of how I changed the mind-set of a few lovely young women at church.

Lydia said...

Every girl at church who dressed immodestly got pregnant. I haven't seen an exception yet. I believe the immodesty is the first sign of it. Clothes don't just fall off all of a sudden. They wear less and less until it is just easier.When my husband and I try to alert the parents, the parents usually get in attack mode. Later when their daughters get into trouble, they blame the church saying we didn't have enough activities for them.

HISchild said...

Lady Lydia -

Here are two blog posts. Use them if you find them appropriate.


Anonymous said...

I'd love to find some sites that address (directly or indirectly) modesty for the pre-teen group - most of the ones I've seen are aimed more at the older set...something to counter the influences that are ever present...

Anonymous said...

Mrs. Wilt, at The Sparrow's Nest, recently did a whole month of wonderful posts on modesty. Look for the "Month of Modesty" button on her home page.

Anonymous said...

I've been thinking about the church topic.

As I commented above, I am not only appalled by what some of the women and teens wear, but also the men and even the children.

But then part of me says that it is more important that people are in church, no matter how they are dressed.

But then I realized, that this would really only apply to not being able to afford "church" clothes.

As I looked around yesterday, that was not the issue. The clothes were not inexpensive, not a sign of families who could not afford better. In fact, they were quite expensive, "stylish," name-brands. All of which could be substituted with modest, proper church clothes, for less money than the strings they are wearing.

If the minister or pastor takes the time to make sure the appearance of himself and his church is welcoming and clean and proper, shouldn't we offer the same respect?

~ Ann

Katrinka said...

Re Lady Lydia's comments: It is so appalling to go to church and criticize a pastor's teachings on modesty and submission to authority. If there's anywhere a pastor should be free to teach on these issues, it IS the church! Our pastor was once slapped by a woman when he told her that her granddaughter would have to cover up in church. The granddaughter took it better than the grandmother did . . . but she still ended up pregnant and unmarried! I think if he tried to teach on submission and being keepers at home there might be a riot! If people are going to insist on dressing immodestly, can they at least cover up for the couple of hours they are in church on Sunday morning? A man in my husband's class at church once told him that he grew up in a church where the deacon's wives met the young ladies at the door with lap cloths and they handed them out and were instructed to cover themselves when they sat down. They even walked down some of the aisles and laid them across the ladies' knees themselves. I agree that it is awkward to reverse the current trend that our country is taking toward immodesty, rebellion,etc. and that we can sometimes seem legalistic. But it all has to start somewhere if it is to start at all . . . we cannot hope to dither about this issue because people WILL be offended when asked to dress more modestly. Only a humble Christian spirit would make it otherwise. How can we return to conservative values and dress without change? How can we change without offending some people by telling them they are going the wrong way?

Lydia said...

I was just discussing this issue with my friend and she pointed out to me that the public schools all now have dress codes and girls cannot wear anything with straps or leave their bellies uncovered. In many schools now there are no shorts allowed, and they cannot wear tight tee shirts. Yet the parents will complain if the preacher's wife teaches a lesson on modesty which include hiding bra straps and no cleavage. Schools don't allow cleavage either, so what is the big deal? We are vilified because we do it in the name of bringing dignity to the human being and glorifying God.

As for the clothing being so bare: it is indeed the expensive clothing that they claim they have a right to wear. It doesn't cost much to cover up. It is the style and the labels that they are trying to display. These are the sexy clothes the designers push off on society. They put young girls in danger, although usually the naive mothers will say that sexy clothes on young girls do not attract pedophiles or predators.

Jeans cost more than dresses and that is one reason I don't buy them. For the cost of a pair of jeans I can get fabric for several very pretty skirts. Recently I heard a girl make fun of a floral skirt in a store and she turned up her nose at it and called it "house-frau" and would have nothing to do with it. It was her boyfriend who was pointing it out to her. Men are positively impacted by women wearing modest skirts and dresses. Unbeknownst to many girls, guys don't appreciate being assaulted visually all the time by girls in clothing that makes no statement other that "look at my sexiness." They actually function better at work when women are dressed with modesty and decorum.

Lydia said...

I think girls should ditch the designers and the manufacturers and go to the fabric stores, choose their own fabrics and colors and make clothes to suit their figures. The shorts and tank tops just really don't do anything for a woman's figure or face. Skirts and tops are easy to make and make a woman so much more feminine. Look at the Mexican waitresses in the Mexican restaurants with their tried and true peasant skirts and blouses: always fresh, always feminine, and always beautiful, in an endless variety of colors and trims.

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately, the dress codes in schools are often written to "look good" and are rarely enforced. A real dress code would be uniforms, with a few color choices and nothing else. And don't get me started on what they dress up in (and spend ridiculous amounts of money on) for school "dances!"

Lydia said...

Here is the dress code for middle schools. So, what is the big trauma over teaching girls at church to be modest? Why such an uproar over being modest at church? Why so much resistance? We have been threatened with both lawsuit and loss of job (people said they would ruin our job for us) and also ridiculed and mocked over two things I taught the girls: hide your bra straps and your cleavage. Why does this inflame them so much? At least I don't tell them what to wear, which the school obviously does, as you see here: (arkansas)

E. DRESS GUIDELINES: Any dress or grooming which disrupts school will become the subject of disciplinary action. Dress code regulations are as follows:

1. Girls shirts must have sleeves. If the shirt is not tucked, it

must be of a length that the midriff is not seen when the arms

are raised above the head. Cap sleeves may be worn unless the arm holes are too revealing.

2. Boys shirts must also have sleeves; and if the shirt is

designed to be tucked, it should be.

3. Shorts may be worn by boys or girls. The shorts must come within four inches of the top of the knee and be nonform-fitting (not too tight). Violations: 1st Offense: warning. 2nd Offense: student will forfeit privilege to wear shorts for remainder of school year.

4. Girls must wear loose, nonform-fitting pants and skirts. Skirts must touch the top of the knee when the girl is standing.

5. Boys must wear their pants on or above the hips with no undergarments showing. Boys shall not wear oversized pants. No sagging

6. Cotton sweat pants are not allowed.

7. House shoes or shower shoes shall not be worn to school.

8. Transparent clothing is not allowed.

9. Clothing which displays profanity, nudity, drugs, alcoholic beverages, drug paraphernalia, gang affiliation or any other distasteful or distracting symbols or slogans is not allowed.

10. Sunglasses are not to be worn inside any building.

11. Hats or caps shall not be worn in any classroom or building

by males or females.

12. Teachers may restrict dress or hair length for safety.

13. Students who consistently break dress code rules will be

subject to disciplinary action.

14. The principal may add additional guidelines as

circumstances dictate.

Lydia said...

When I mentioned the threats, I was speaking of an accumulation of over 40 years of Bible teaching.

Anonymous said...

My heart aches for you lady lydia. Maybe your church should post a dress-coad similar to the school district one that you posted. I think the debate about legalism is a bogus smoke screen begun by Satan himself. Rules and laws civilize people. Truth is truth whether it is welcome or not.

Modesty, morality, and honor are all connected one way or another.

Susan said...

I had forgotten about this post over the weekend. I have written several posts about modest dress on my blog - - you can find them in my category listing Modest Dress. Thanks!

The Proverbs Wife said...

I've written two post regarding modesty. One exposes my own past struggle with understanding the affect that a lack of modesty has on our daughters and other men. The other is with the viewpoint of the acceptance of this Biblical principle and why it is so important to parctice and to tech modesty.

Here are the links:


Thank you for this labor of love. I can't wait until all of the links are compiled.

Anonymous said...

One link that I return to again and again is this: basically it is a portal with online stores that cater to modest dress, hte majority being classed by religious adherance. It is worth checking out the pages belonging to another "religion" as they might still have something good. Unfortunately there is very little available online in Europe and we have to pay tax and import duty on the value of the item (including postage), - it can get more expensive than expected. This afternoon I went into a major store in this country as I had some spare time and I looked at ALL the tops, there was only one that would have been modest enough on it's own for my standards (but it was black which looks terrible on me), there weren't very good layering options either as most things as noted previously are lacking the top button(s), as for skirst I think those that weren't see through were too tight or too short, - with some falling into all three categories. I haven't personally written much about modesty, but you are welcome to check out the little that I have at:

Anonymous said...

Nice links. Lady Lydia, What do you think modesty is? I wear sleeveless shirts sometimes but they don't show cleavage and I wear skirts at least slightly below the knee.

Lydia said...

Lillian, I don't like layering. It is too hot! That is why I like a dress: it is one piece and no loose ends to tuck in or pullout, no extra pieces to remove or tie or attached etc. One dress hangs in the closet more neatly and doesn't get all over the place like separates. I dislike suits for that reason--a blouse and a jacket together just drive me crazy and that is one reason I make dresses. They look like suits and can look like two-piece but are only one continuous garment. Making them myself means I can adjust the neckline or hemline so that when I lean over or sit, nothing rides up or down. Patterns are just as bad as ready mades, as they always have to be adjusted (too low, too short, etc) I don't like dressing dull..I like bright colors and clear patterns and bold prints. The attraction of a dress should be in the color and the print rather than the revealing parts. Lots of girls are going into costume sewing because they are tired of fighting with fashion to find things that are beautiful and comfortable and modest at the same time. Check out the edwardian sewing board at Sense and Sensibility.

Anonymous said...

I would be happy if you would link these articles from my blog.

Kathryn Louis

Lydia said...

I really appreciate all these links, and will try to include them in a modesty article for LAF which I hope to send in, soon. It is so important to protect our daughters. Yesterday 5 young girls were walking at night, past my house. My husband asked me to go outside and talk to them and tell them they are courting danger by the way they are dressed, by being without a brother or father or husband, and that there is danger lurking all the time. I told them that they were also so small in stature, that they could easily be snatched and carried off. I told one girl that the bare way she was dressed was a magnet for the bad types, and that not everyone in the world was good and could not be trusted. I think we need to quit arguing whether this is legalistic or holier than thou or whatever excuses we have, and also look at the protection that clothing can provide. Modesty means "to hide" among other meanings. It means not showing off the bare skin so much that the eye is drawn to it. Dressing in modest attire means to drape oneself. Clothing in the west, today, is anything but drapey--it is absolutely clingy. You can be covered adequately but wear it so tight it shows everything that is private. I think we need to protect our daughters. You rarely hear of anyone being attacked who is with their father and mother. You rarely hear of anyone being snatched when they are dressed modestly and are under the protection of their families. People argue circles around me about this issue, but when they have a daughter, they will sing a different tune.

Anonymous said...

Just read the middle school dress code posted on the comments...wonder why people are not so quick to label the school dress code as LEGALISTIC, a term that is thrown about when modesty is an issue! I suspect it is nothing more than a smoke screen to shut people up so others can get away with any kind of rudeness, including immodesty (immodesty is actually a form of rudeness), right in their own homes as well as in the public. Just call someone a legalist and they retreat. There is no such thing as legalism--it was a term created to nullilfy and vilify the word of God